Bell 206 B3 or Robinson R44 ?
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 339
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From: Canada
I'm looking outside the box beyond performance and cost, and urge you to ask yourself what your final paint plans are.
Do you want plain jane boring? then either with suffice.
however, do you want that eye catching pizzazz that makes people look in awe? then I would choose the 206, it has a much better shape and canvas to create something that pops.
Do you want plain jane boring? then either with suffice.
however, do you want that eye catching pizzazz that makes people look in awe? then I would choose the 206, it has a much better shape and canvas to create something that pops.
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: California
Its almost like driving a Trans Am, then getting into a Camero.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24
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From: Makati City, Philippines
The Bell doesn't need rebuilding every 12 years. The Robinson is cheaper to buy.
The Bell doesn't really depreciate, but costs more to maintain annually. The Robinson seems to depreciate with age following each 12 year rebuild.
When you start the Bell, you feel like a Skygod. When you start the Robinson, you feel like a tractor driver!
The Bell doesn't really depreciate, but costs more to maintain annually. The Robinson seems to depreciate with age following each 12 year rebuild.
When you start the Bell, you feel like a Skygod. When you start the Robinson, you feel like a tractor driver!
While the B206 B3 is no more in production but are in huge number around the globe.
Thank you for the replies so far. Quite a learning there already. Let's just take it easy on our biases although we are entitled to them by nature.
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 240
Likes: 50
From: San Diego, CA
Thank you for this. This is actually what I heard about the R44 or the Robinson helis. 12 years use, 2,000 hours or 2,000 start cycles the operator will have to "return" the Robinson heli to factory for rebuilding or so. And will have to be repurchased at 50-60 % of the brand new price.
Joined: Oct 2014
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From: In my Swag
Yes and no, Airwolf and Bell have three year life now, so are slightly better for low hour usage but still can be an embugerance.
The life limit is from when fitted, no dispensation for when the helicopter is sitting idle.
There are also many part life and midlife inspections/overhauls required on the B206 series, that can blow out the direct operating costs.
FWIW
The life limit is from when fitted, no dispensation for when the helicopter is sitting idle.
There are also many part life and midlife inspections/overhauls required on the B206 series, that can blow out the direct operating costs.
FWIW
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Brantisvogan
Thank you for this. This is actually what I heard about the R44 or the Robinson helis. 12 years use, 2,000 hours or 2,000 start cycles the operator will have to "return" the Robinson heli to factory for rebuilding or so. And will have to be repurchased at 50-60 % of the brand new price.
While the B206 B3 is no more in production but are in huge number around the globe.
Thank you for the replies so far. Quite a learning there already. Let's just take it easy on our biases although we are entitled to them by nature.
While the B206 B3 is no more in production but are in huge number around the globe.
Thank you for the replies so far. Quite a learning there already. Let's just take it easy on our biases although we are entitled to them by nature.
As they approach rebuild the value drops to next to nothing, they will then sit on the ground for 3 months while they are rebuilt.
in this neck of the woods the rebuild costs approximately 50% of what you could sell it for for post rebuild.
Hot and high performance is not good, it really is an aircraft for 2 adults and two kids, in the Bell we could always take 4 adults and know we would be ok.
The 44 is a cost effective aircraft, to achieve that there are compromises - you can see it in the way it is built and in how it performs.
If you intend flying with friends and family, I would take the tried and tested aircraft with a long steller reputation ahead of one that continually lives under a cloud and where you could become yet another topic of conversation with the faithful going on about your experience. According to them you need to be a real hotshot to fly the Robbie, must be the case since it is only the inexperienced that seem to break them.
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
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From: California
"Hotshot to fly a Robbie", damn, the bias on here is so thick you need an IR to get through it!
Do yourself a favor dude, whichever you pick,...lease it. Advice from everyone I've known who has owned a helicopter.
Do yourself a favor dude, whichever you pick,...lease it. Advice from everyone I've known who has owned a helicopter.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 850
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From: USA
This is not accurate. It's 12 years or 2200 hours, whichever comes first, and I believe it's specifically 2200 collective hours for aircraft equipped to show it, which is even better. The overhaul does not have to be done at the factory and you do not "repurchase" your aircraft. Most of the cost is for supplies/parts, with the rest covering roughly 240 hours (factory estimate) of labor. The cost has nothing to do with the purchase price of the helicopter.
I've witnessed many of these overhauls at the local school which is also a Robinson approved MX facility. Some of the school R22's are flying on their third or fourth overhaul. I.e., they are doing it right financially, not just pissing away every dollar that comes in the door so that at the end of a cycle they have to sheepishly post their run-out on controller.com for someone to buy from them.
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12
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From: London
All joking aside, having owned both types I would say:-
1. Lease your choice if possible
2. A good 206B3 is reliable, safe and has a lot of margin for pilot error other than on start
3. 44 good fun, but little margin for error, need rapid reactions and feels "flimsy" all round
4. In turbulence I want a B3
5. Passengers - love the B3. Even with the bulkhead, they have more room than a 44
6. Despite the jokes that a 44 feels the same as a B3 in auto - thats cr*p. Ignore the forums and try for yourself. Its chalk and cheese and B3 wins. An auto in a B3 is a non-event
7. The 44 I had I lost money on when selling after 2 years. The B3 I made 15% profit after two years use. (Still would lease in future!) + I did more hours in the B3
8. The cyclic... when duals out and passenger in left seat - far less room for a sudden whack as passenger see's a river to the right!
9. B3 is a real helicopter. 44 is a fun training toy for getting ready for turbines but not a full time option in my opinion (IF you have the choice)
I'll get my hat...
1. Lease your choice if possible
2. A good 206B3 is reliable, safe and has a lot of margin for pilot error other than on start
3. 44 good fun, but little margin for error, need rapid reactions and feels "flimsy" all round
4. In turbulence I want a B3
5. Passengers - love the B3. Even with the bulkhead, they have more room than a 44
6. Despite the jokes that a 44 feels the same as a B3 in auto - thats cr*p. Ignore the forums and try for yourself. Its chalk and cheese and B3 wins. An auto in a B3 is a non-event
7. The 44 I had I lost money on when selling after 2 years. The B3 I made 15% profit after two years use. (Still would lease in future!) + I did more hours in the B3
8. The cyclic... when duals out and passenger in left seat - far less room for a sudden whack as passenger see's a river to the right!
9. B3 is a real helicopter. 44 is a fun training toy for getting ready for turbines but not a full time option in my opinion (IF you have the choice)
I'll get my hat...
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
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From: California
If you like horror movies, the bad guys in the movie Hostel 2 had a 44 parked outside their house.
,...so it seems the bad guys like Robbies
Joined: Apr 1998
Posts: 4
Likes: 1
From: Mesopotamos
In most Hollywood post production studios the sound libraries they have access to and probably the first helicopter sound bytes returned by the software query (startup, inside, outside, turn-off, etc) come from a trusty JetBanger, except when it dives in which case it sounds like a Stuka.
Back to topic. I'm not an operator just a user.
R44: If your tall and don't have little short feet your right foot will be angled inwards which becomes uncomfortable. T-bar cyclic is hard to love.
BIII: If your tall your head may touch the overhead, also high skids are nicer. Front seat is crap but can be replaced with aftermarket ones. Not sure if install/removing pax side pedals still needs to be performed by licensed engineer.
Prefer the BIII anytime money isn't an issue, unfortunately most pax think they are much the same thing.
Back to topic. I'm not an operator just a user.
R44: If your tall and don't have little short feet your right foot will be angled inwards which becomes uncomfortable. T-bar cyclic is hard to love.
BIII: If your tall your head may touch the overhead, also high skids are nicer. Front seat is crap but can be replaced with aftermarket ones. Not sure if install/removing pax side pedals still needs to be performed by licensed engineer.
Prefer the BIII anytime money isn't an issue, unfortunately most pax think they are much the same thing.