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Bell 206 B3 or Robinson R44 ?

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Bell 206 B3 or Robinson R44 ?

Old 10th Dec 2018, 12:45
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I'm looking outside the box beyond performance and cost, and urge you to ask yourself what your final paint plans are.
Do you want plain jane boring? then either with suffice.
however, do you want that eye catching pizzazz that makes people look in awe? then I would choose the 206, it has a much better shape and canvas to create something that pops.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 15:38
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fenestron8 View Post
Go and grab an hour in each type. In particular try an auto. there are huge differences! B3 has a lot of intertia in blades when things go quiet.
I've done autos in both. They perform identically, same slow, long glide, with plenty left for a nice cushy set down. In fact, all the while I was flying the 206 I kept thinking, "damn, this thing flys just like a 44"!

Its almost like driving a Trans Am, then getting into a Camero.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 16:41
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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They auto identically?
There must have been something very wrong with that 206.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 17:41
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer View Post
They auto identically?
There must have been something very wrong with that 206.
,...or with the 44 you autoed
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 19:39
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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why not buy an ex Uk military SA341. 4 seats 125 kt cruise. cheap parts ( stacks of bits in UK ) it will beat either R44 or 206 as a personal machine
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 21:36
  #26 (permalink)  
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Smile

Originally Posted by 206 jock View Post
The Bell doesn't need rebuilding every 12 years. The Robinson is cheaper to buy.

The Bell doesn't really depreciate, but costs more to maintain annually. The Robinson seems to depreciate with age following each 12 year rebuild.

When you start the Bell, you feel like a Skygod. When you start the Robinson, you feel like a tractor driver!
Thank you for this. This is actually what I heard about the R44 or the Robinson helis. 12 years use, 2,000 hours or 2,000 start cycles the operator will have to "return" the Robinson heli to factory for rebuilding or so. And will have to be repurchased at 50-60 % of the brand new price.

While the B206 B3 is no more in production but are in huge number around the globe.

Thank you for the replies so far. Quite a learning there already. Let's just take it easy on our biases although we are entitled to them by nature.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 22:13
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Are Bell 206 Tension-Torsion Straps still the issue they once were?
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 23:25
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nerf97 View Post
Thank you for this. This is actually what I heard about the R44 or the Robinson helis. 12 years use, 2,000 hours or 2,000 start cycles the operator will have to "return" the Robinson heli to factory for rebuilding or so. And will have to be repurchased at 50-60 % of the brand new price.
This is not accurate. It's 12 years or 2200 hours, whichever comes first, and I believe it's specifically 2200 collective hours for aircraft equipped to show it, which is even better. The overhaul does not have to be done at the factory and you do not "repurchase" your aircraft. Most of the cost is for supplies/parts, with the rest covering roughly 240 hours (factory estimate) of labor. The cost has nothing to do with the purchase price of the helicopter.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 00:09
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Are Bell 206 Tension-Torsion Straps still the issue they once were?
Yes and no, Airwolf and Bell have three year life now, so are slightly better for low hour usage but still can be an embugerance.
The life limit is from when fitted, no dispensation for when the helicopter is sitting idle.
There are also many part life and midlife inspections/overhauls required on the B206 series, that can blow out the direct operating costs.
FWIW
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 02:32
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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The OP should consider Enstrom - either piston or turbine. Hardly any calendar limited parts. Very pilot friendly. Just need an experienced engineer within flying distance...
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 03:34
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nerf97 View Post
Thank you for this. This is actually what I heard about the R44 or the Robinson helis. 12 years use, 2,000 hours or 2,000 start cycles the operator will have to "return" the Robinson heli to factory for rebuilding or so. And will have to be repurchased at 50-60 % of the brand new price.

While the B206 B3 is no more in production but are in huge number around the globe.

Thank you for the replies so far. Quite a learning there already. Let's just take it easy on our biases although we are entitled to them by nature.
The cost isn't that high a percentage but it is a significant chunk, largely depends on the hours you do how much of a problem it is.
As they approach rebuild the value drops to next to nothing, they will then sit on the ground for 3 months while they are rebuilt.
in this neck of the woods the rebuild costs approximately 50% of what you could sell it for for post rebuild.

Hot and high performance is not good, it really is an aircraft for 2 adults and two kids, in the Bell we could always take 4 adults and know we would be ok.
The 44 is a cost effective aircraft, to achieve that there are compromises - you can see it in the way it is built and in how it performs.
If you intend flying with friends and family, I would take the tried and tested aircraft with a long steller reputation ahead of one that continually lives under a cloud and where you could become yet another topic of conversation with the faithful going on about your experience. According to them you need to be a real hotshot to fly the Robbie, must be the case since it is only the inexperienced that seem to break them.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 04:23
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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"Hotshot to fly a Robbie", damn, the bias on here is so thick you need an IR to get through it!

Do yourself a favor dude, whichever you pick,...lease it. Advice from everyone I've known who has owned a helicopter.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 12:23
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr View Post
This is not accurate. It's 12 years or 2200 hours, whichever comes first, and I believe it's specifically 2200 collective hours for aircraft equipped to show it, which is even better. The overhaul does not have to be done at the factory and you do not "repurchase" your aircraft. Most of the cost is for supplies/parts, with the rest covering roughly 240 hours (factory estimate) of labor. The cost has nothing to do with the purchase price of the helicopter.
100% accurate

I've witnessed many of these overhauls at the local school which is also a Robinson approved MX facility. Some of the school R22's are flying on their third or fourth overhaul. I.e., they are doing it right financially, not just pissing away every dollar that comes in the door so that at the end of a cycle they have to sheepishly post their run-out on controller.com for someone to buy from them.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 12:59
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Robbiee View Post
"Hotshot to fly a Robbie", damn, the bias on here is so thick you need an IR to get through it!
You should have taken that as a compliment!
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 13:38
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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All joking aside, having owned both types I would say:-

1. Lease your choice if possible
2. A good 206B3 is reliable, safe and has a lot of margin for pilot error other than on start
3. 44 good fun, but little margin for error, need rapid reactions and feels "flimsy" all round
4. In turbulence I want a B3
5. Passengers - love the B3. Even with the bulkhead, they have more room than a 44
6. Despite the jokes that a 44 feels the same as a B3 in auto - thats cr*p. Ignore the forums and try for yourself. Its chalk and cheese and B3 wins. An auto in a B3 is a non-event
7. The 44 I had I lost money on when selling after 2 years. The B3 I made 15% profit after two years use. (Still would lease in future!) + I did more hours in the B3
8. The cyclic... when duals out and passenger in left seat - far less room for a sudden whack as passenger see's a river to the right!
9. B3 is a real helicopter. 44 is a fun training toy for getting ready for turbines but not a full time option in my opinion (IF you have the choice)

I'll get my hat...
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 16:49
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Oh fenstron 8 what have you done !!!
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 17:56
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Go pick any movie, which one has a Robbie in it?
Busy watching the rock being shot at from a helicopter.
Is it a 44? Nope, good ole JetBanger
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 18:40
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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OP, I'll buy you a B3, just so Bell_Ringer can get his participation trophy and we can all move on...
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 02:44
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer View Post
Go pick any movie, which one has a Robbie in it?
Busy watching the rock being shot at from a helicopter.
Is it a 44? Nope, good ole JetBanger
The bad guy in the Bond film Goldeneye escaped out of a train car in what looked a lot like an R22.

If you like horror movies, the bad guys in the movie Hostel 2 had a 44 parked outside their house.

,...so it seems the bad guys like Robbies
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 06:31
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Robbiee View Post
The bad guy in the Bond film Goldeneye escaped out of a train car in what looked a lot like an R22.
Didn't they dub the sound track with turbine noises, or was that another movie?
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