'Condolences' are not suitable fare for public display
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SASless
My answers to the questions you've asked me .....
Re "the concept of total strangers offering condolences to those who have suffered a loss."
I meant 'in person' because I was responding to Capt Waffoo's assertion but I wouldn't limit it to 'in person.'
"Is it also your personal opinion that impersonal offerings of such condolences, in public forums, from anonymous sources, with the vague hope that some time in the future, some one might read them and be somehow comforted from that reading, is really a valid effort to comfort the bereaved next-of-kin?
Yes. I believe those who offer condolences here genuinely mean what they say and hope the families (or friends/colleagues of the pilot) see them. And I know pilots' families who have found comfort in them.
"Or.....is it somehow a well intentioned method of some anonymous individual to record the fact of some pour soul's passing through a tragic event and in some way salve the contributor's internal need."
Hmm. Very interesting question. I'm not a psychiatrist but, for what it's worth, I think for some people there is an element of salving an internal need - I think there probably is in my case. But the two motives are not mutually exclusive, and the 'internal need' element (if present) doesn't devalue the condolence offered, nor detract from its sincerity.
" Is it, in your view the correct thing to do socially, ethically, and morally, that is, to anonymously post a condolence message or would a more personal approach better meet the dictates of standards of etiquette, ethics, and morality."
I think it is perfectly acceptable "socially, ethically, and morally."
A personal approach is preferable but it's not always practical and, given the anonymous nature of Pprune, not possible.
I don't think anonymous messages are a breach of etiquette, and can't see how they could possibly be considered unethical or immoral.
What-ho
As you correctly guessed, I don't think any one of the three categories is 'right' or 'wrong'. I happen to fall nearer (1) than (3) because I do sometimes express condolences. Although I disagree with those in category (2) I respect their right to hold those views.
What in my view is 'wrong' is to spoil a thread in which people are expressing condolences by criticising in disparaging and patronising terms. That is not only insensitive, but plain bad manners. Respect for others' views cuts both ways. I suspect Capt Waffoo must be the only one who doesn't understand why his post was from a crash thread.
My answers to the questions you've asked me .....
Re "the concept of total strangers offering condolences to those who have suffered a loss."
I meant 'in person' because I was responding to Capt Waffoo's assertion but I wouldn't limit it to 'in person.'
"Is it also your personal opinion that impersonal offerings of such condolences, in public forums, from anonymous sources, with the vague hope that some time in the future, some one might read them and be somehow comforted from that reading, is really a valid effort to comfort the bereaved next-of-kin?
Yes. I believe those who offer condolences here genuinely mean what they say and hope the families (or friends/colleagues of the pilot) see them. And I know pilots' families who have found comfort in them.
"Or.....is it somehow a well intentioned method of some anonymous individual to record the fact of some pour soul's passing through a tragic event and in some way salve the contributor's internal need."
Hmm. Very interesting question. I'm not a psychiatrist but, for what it's worth, I think for some people there is an element of salving an internal need - I think there probably is in my case. But the two motives are not mutually exclusive, and the 'internal need' element (if present) doesn't devalue the condolence offered, nor detract from its sincerity.
" Is it, in your view the correct thing to do socially, ethically, and morally, that is, to anonymously post a condolence message or would a more personal approach better meet the dictates of standards of etiquette, ethics, and morality."
I think it is perfectly acceptable "socially, ethically, and morally."
A personal approach is preferable but it's not always practical and, given the anonymous nature of Pprune, not possible.
I don't think anonymous messages are a breach of etiquette, and can't see how they could possibly be considered unethical or immoral.
What-ho
As you correctly guessed, I don't think any one of the three categories is 'right' or 'wrong'. I happen to fall nearer (1) than (3) because I do sometimes express condolences. Although I disagree with those in category (2) I respect their right to hold those views.
What in my view is 'wrong' is to spoil a thread in which people are expressing condolences by criticising in disparaging and patronising terms. That is not only insensitive, but plain bad manners. Respect for others' views cuts both ways. I suspect Capt Waffoo must be the only one who doesn't understand why his post was from a crash thread.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 20th Jul 2002 at 23:16.
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Capt W,
Sure, sometimes we do know the deceased in which case such sentiments are likely to be expressed, but I still feel it a bit ostentatious to post them on a public forum such as this
Yes, now the names have been released, I discover that I did indeed know one of the deceased, in common with many of us here. I am glad that the moderator chose to move your view from the original thread in case any of his family or close fiends were reading it (even if the comments accompanying it were rather unnecessary).
Irlandes,
Keep on posting. I have been a professional helicopter pilot for many years, but this is a discussion forum and views from those who are about to enter our profession should always be welcomed even if we do not agree with them. The world would be a very dull place if we all agreed on everything.
Nick,
Totally agree. I particularly like the quote from John Donne. Having seen so many friends and colleagues lose their lives over the years whilst engaged in this profession which most of us love, I always feel that I am diminished a bit whenever one of us dies in a crash.
Sure, sometimes we do know the deceased in which case such sentiments are likely to be expressed, but I still feel it a bit ostentatious to post them on a public forum such as this
Yes, now the names have been released, I discover that I did indeed know one of the deceased, in common with many of us here. I am glad that the moderator chose to move your view from the original thread in case any of his family or close fiends were reading it (even if the comments accompanying it were rather unnecessary).
Irlandes,
Keep on posting. I have been a professional helicopter pilot for many years, but this is a discussion forum and views from those who are about to enter our profession should always be welcomed even if we do not agree with them. The world would be a very dull place if we all agreed on everything.
Nick,
Totally agree. I particularly like the quote from John Donne. Having seen so many friends and colleagues lose their lives over the years whilst engaged in this profession which most of us love, I always feel that I am diminished a bit whenever one of us dies in a crash.
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Rotorheads policy
Thanks for all your contributions to the discussion. Having considered and discussed the various arguments, we have decided that the following policy reflects the wishes of the majority of members.
Anyone who wishes to post messages of condolence is free to do so.
We entirely agree with the point made by Hoverman and others that the helicopter world is a small one and many members wish to use Rotorheads to express their sadness at the death of a fellow pilot / sympathy for the bereaved family whether or not they knew the pilot personally.
Posts cricising condolence messages are unacceptable.
Some members consider condolence messages to be inappropriate; they are entitled to their views. However, criticising others for doing so is entirely unacceptable and will not be permitted.
Heliport
PedalStop
Rotorheads Moderators
Thanks for all your contributions to the discussion. Having considered and discussed the various arguments, we have decided that the following policy reflects the wishes of the majority of members.
Anyone who wishes to post messages of condolence is free to do so.
We entirely agree with the point made by Hoverman and others that the helicopter world is a small one and many members wish to use Rotorheads to express their sadness at the death of a fellow pilot / sympathy for the bereaved family whether or not they knew the pilot personally.
Posts cricising condolence messages are unacceptable.
Some members consider condolence messages to be inappropriate; they are entitled to their views. However, criticising others for doing so is entirely unacceptable and will not be permitted.
Heliport
PedalStop
Rotorheads Moderators
