AS350B3 Left Hand PIC Configuration
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Pretoria, South Africa
AS350B3 Left Hand PIC Configuration
Hi
Does anyone have any experience doing sling work with the "Left-hand Pilot Configuration".
https://www.airbushelicopters.ca/opt...configuration/
I am sure other 350 drivers would like to know more about this.
Could you post some pictures of the setup as well, the Airbus site does not show much.
Thanks
Thilo
Does anyone have any experience doing sling work with the "Left-hand Pilot Configuration".
https://www.airbushelicopters.ca/opt...configuration/
I am sure other 350 drivers would like to know more about this.
Could you post some pictures of the setup as well, the Airbus site does not show much.
Thanks
Thilo
Last edited by Thilo; 30th October 2017 at 12:32.
Joined: Oct 2006
Aviation Qualifications: A&P
Posts: 1,347
Likes: 271
From: USA
Thilo:
I don't know the ops side of this config but on the install side of the one I was involved with it was very cost prohibitive. It was on a B2 and can only imagine it would cost more.
I don't know the ops side of this config but on the install side of the one I was involved with it was very cost prohibitive. It was on a B2 and can only imagine it would cost more.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: LOS
I can tell you that back in the 80's when the Astar first came to Canada the company I was working for had bubble doors and arm rests made for the left side. We did long line work with them for a couple years before TC pointed out that the RFM did not allow left seat single pilot ops.
The Astar was a fabulous long line machine when flown from the left seat, far far superior to using that hole in the floor from the right side. If you have a left seat option available, take it, you will not regret it.
The Astar was a fabulous long line machine when flown from the left seat, far far superior to using that hole in the floor from the right side. If you have a left seat option available, take it, you will not regret it.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 189
From: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
I have flown the left seat PIC version with the STC, although never did long line out of it. We had the 2 seat bench seat up front to carry six passengers, never had a problem with it.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 814
Likes: 2
From: the hills of halton
HI if you look at the link it is taking you to airbus helicopters canada who are the STC holder. See TC web site for more details SH96-32 , I will try and attatch , I was fortunate to work there during the period when most of the 103 Stc's were developed. We had a great team back then
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
From: the great white north
i just came off a seismic job with a LH drive B2 which is my first experience with one. i found it to be really uncomfortable and i had trouble seeing properly.
if you are buying a new B3e, Airbus have the largest of the longline windows that i have seen. if you are in a warmer climate and can remove the doors, then the RHD astar is fine.
if you are buying a new B3e, Airbus have the largest of the longline windows that i have seen. if you are in a warmer climate and can remove the doors, then the RHD astar is fine.
Joined: Sep 2002
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,721
Likes: 637
From: Great South East, tired and retired
A PPLH owner in Sydney bought a re-built left-hand drive AS350 from Canada - the only things from the original wreck were the dataplate and 2 small items which weren't damaged, basically a complete new aircraft - it saved a massive amount of tax levied on the creation of a new dataplate.
The throttle quadrant is at the left door, instead of between the 2 front seats. This made it very difficult for an instructor to endorse me on it, because he had to be able to manipulate the throttle for the emergency sequences, so I had to change seats and sit on the right. Comes time for an auto, he pulls the throttle, I enter auto, lever to the floor, and all is looking good, here comes the flare, RRPM starting to rise, so I pull the lever a little to control them - but the lever is stuck to the floor.
"IT'S STUCK!" says i to the instructor, "THE LEVER IS STUCK!" as I continue the flare.
He looks down to the left, sees that the collective lock has engaged itself, so he tries to unlatch it, but he has to push down on the lever to do that, while I am pulling up on it. I won.
Knowing that there would be no collective to cushion, I had lowered the nose while we still had some speed, and prepared to run it onto the grass next to the runway. We bounced. Luckily, actually, because we hopped over an elevated taxiway which would have caught the toes and torn off the skids or tipped us over. When we landed again on the grass, we narrowly missed a drainage ditch on the left, and skidded to a halt with a cloud of dust and a hearty Hi-Ho Silver.
I unstrapped, walked around to the left door, opened it, and unlatched the collective lock, and then broke it off so it couldn't do it again. There was no damage to the aircraft, so it is possible to say that an AS350 can endure an auto without collective.
I complained to the (then) Aerospatiale agent in Oz, and he said "Zat ees not a dezign feature of our aircraft. Eet ees a modification from Canada. We have no control over zem."
There was also a crash in Scottsdale Az in 2004 for the same reason, but theirs happened at 1200' and they didn't get a good landing off it.
The throttle quadrant is at the left door, instead of between the 2 front seats. This made it very difficult for an instructor to endorse me on it, because he had to be able to manipulate the throttle for the emergency sequences, so I had to change seats and sit on the right. Comes time for an auto, he pulls the throttle, I enter auto, lever to the floor, and all is looking good, here comes the flare, RRPM starting to rise, so I pull the lever a little to control them - but the lever is stuck to the floor.
"IT'S STUCK!" says i to the instructor, "THE LEVER IS STUCK!" as I continue the flare.
He looks down to the left, sees that the collective lock has engaged itself, so he tries to unlatch it, but he has to push down on the lever to do that, while I am pulling up on it. I won.
Knowing that there would be no collective to cushion, I had lowered the nose while we still had some speed, and prepared to run it onto the grass next to the runway. We bounced. Luckily, actually, because we hopped over an elevated taxiway which would have caught the toes and torn off the skids or tipped us over. When we landed again on the grass, we narrowly missed a drainage ditch on the left, and skidded to a halt with a cloud of dust and a hearty Hi-Ho Silver.
I unstrapped, walked around to the left door, opened it, and unlatched the collective lock, and then broke it off so it couldn't do it again. There was no damage to the aircraft, so it is possible to say that an AS350 can endure an auto without collective.
I complained to the (then) Aerospatiale agent in Oz, and he said "Zat ees not a dezign feature of our aircraft. Eet ees a modification from Canada. We have no control over zem."
There was also a crash in Scottsdale Az in 2004 for the same reason, but theirs happened at 1200' and they didn't get a good landing off it.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Pretoria, South Africa
Thanks Outwest. If I recall correctly, the original FM did not specify the PIC seat. Aerospatiale changed it after TC found out. Several Canadian colleagues told me that they really enjoyed the "left-hand" drive sling days.
As far as I understand the present left-hand configuration, it is taken from the EC130, and therefore even closer to the "window".
There must be someone here who has got some pictures, and hopefully sling experience.
Let us know please.
Thilo
As far as I understand the present left-hand configuration, it is taken from the EC130, and therefore even closer to the "window".
There must be someone here who has got some pictures, and hopefully sling experience.
Let us know please.
Thilo
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: LOS
Thanks Outwest. If I recall correctly, the original FM did not specify the PIC seat. Aerospatiale changed it after TC found out. Several Canadian colleagues told me that they really enjoyed the "left-hand" drive sling days.
As far as I understand the present left-hand configuration, it is taken from the EC130, and therefore even closer to the "window".
There must be someone here who has got some pictures, and hopefully sling experience.
Let us know please.
Thilo
As far as I understand the present left-hand configuration, it is taken from the EC130, and therefore even closer to the "window".
There must be someone here who has got some pictures, and hopefully sling experience.
Let us know please.
Thilo
Taller guys did better with the right seat hole in the floor and bubble window but shorter guys like me got no use out of the bubble window so it was real challenge to try and do production siesmic thru that small hole. Also since most of my longline experience up to that point had been from the left ( Hughes 500, 204 and 205) I am way more comfortable leaning over the collective.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: usa
I have about a thousand hours left PIC AS350 B2 & B3. I have flown not a huge amount of sling jobs. Although I have done Human External LL, drill support/moving, bucket work, and of course cargo hauling. I really enjoy flying from the left. I learned to long line in one from the left, so it is all I know. Did 20 min from the right through the vertical window once, was ok, but not nearly as good as from the left. This being said that there are masters from either side, although I would think you will learn faster and be more proficient with less practice from the left. The key is that you have an arm rest. Also a bubble window is a nice benefit when it is cold or rainy. Plus you can lean against the door. The STC in US for this is owned by TEMSCO in Alaska I believe. I imagine you can contact them about where to buy one. Talking with ground crews over the years they all say that working with helicopters where the pilot is on the left, they are almost always faster. There is much better view of what you are doing below you. Also much better peripheral vision, this of course is used to fly a stable hover. I will say that it is not necessarily the most comfortable for the pilot, so if you have to be "out" all day that can do a number on the body, mainly neck and back. So not all peaches and sunshine. Also often needed to remove the shoulder harness to lean out far enough, so lose a bit of safety. I will see if I can find some photo of the setup. AGO
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,951
Likes: 90
From: After all, what’s more important than proving to someone on the internet that they’re wrong? - Manson
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: LOS
I have about a thousand hours left PIC AS350 B2 & B3. I have flown not a huge amount of sling jobs. Although I have done Human External LL, drill support/moving, bucket work, and of course cargo hauling. I really enjoy flying from the left. I learned to long line in one from the left, so it is all I know. Did 20 min from the right through the vertical window once, was ok, but not nearly as good as from the left. This being said that there are masters from either side, although I would think you will learn faster and be more proficient with less practice from the left. The key is that you have an arm rest. Also a bubble window is a nice benefit when it is cold or rainy. Plus you can lean against the door. The STC in US for this is owned by TEMSCO in Alaska I believe. I imagine you can contact them about where to buy one. Talking with ground crews over the years they all say that working with helicopters where the pilot is on the left, they are almost always faster. There is much better view of what you are doing below you. Also much better peripheral vision, this of course is used to fly a stable hover. I will say that it is not necessarily the most comfortable for the pilot, so if you have to be "out" all day that can do a number on the body, mainly neck and back. So not all peaches and sunshine. Also often needed to remove the shoulder harness to lean out far enough, so lose a bit of safety. I will see if I can find some photo of the setup. AGO
Couldn't agree more
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: In Between Places
Flew a lot of slinging jobs from left seat B2. B3 and the EC 130 in Canada. I loved it. We used an armrest, which is a definite must, and ideally doors off, or we had bubble doors during the colder months. You really have to lean out there, and being taller may have helped out. I think I preferred it to using the floor window on right hand seat models. Trying to contort your body, especially with the smaller windows, was trying on the body at times.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
From: New Zealand
LHS, easier to lean over collective to look out the door, with door off or no window/bubble window. Someone said being taller it might be easier from the left, however i have had short guys tell me that its easier to lean to the left as they have control of collective and can see further out, whereas leaning to the Right you almost let the collective go to see right around underneath you, when you have short arms...
With your arm on a rest you have total control of the collective when leaning out the left.
Radios aren't too much of a problem, as most guys doing sling work don't need to change radio station too much... but you can always just swap hands to change your radio, hold cyclic with Left hand, change radio with right.
If you fly LHS, then you have spare area in your machine between the seats where the collective used to be, great for placing things etc. Any time that you carry pax, then they cannot mess with the controls as they aren't sitting near to the controls. Also they cannot put anything underneath the collective so that you cannot get it down!!
Flying US built machines, you also use less power to get a load moving as you need to use less pedal when lifting. As you pull up on power, nose goes right, so you just look up and slide forward, you have a great view of what is in front of you, tail rotor bites into fresh air rather than flying from the right, and trying to put in full left pedal to see where you are going. In AS350 not so much of an advantage as the blades turn the wrong way.
With your arm on a rest you have total control of the collective when leaning out the left.
Radios aren't too much of a problem, as most guys doing sling work don't need to change radio station too much... but you can always just swap hands to change your radio, hold cyclic with Left hand, change radio with right.
If you fly LHS, then you have spare area in your machine between the seats where the collective used to be, great for placing things etc. Any time that you carry pax, then they cannot mess with the controls as they aren't sitting near to the controls. Also they cannot put anything underneath the collective so that you cannot get it down!!
Flying US built machines, you also use less power to get a load moving as you need to use less pedal when lifting. As you pull up on power, nose goes right, so you just look up and slide forward, you have a great view of what is in front of you, tail rotor bites into fresh air rather than flying from the right, and trying to put in full left pedal to see where you are going. In AS350 not so much of an advantage as the blades turn the wrong way.