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Lilium vertical take off "jet"

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Lilium vertical take off "jet"

Old 19th May 2016, 13:13
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Initially funded by the European Union and supported by the European Space Agency and its Business Incubation Centre Bavaria
ie a glitzy prestige project funded by a irresponsible and financially corrupt body notorious for handing vast sums of cash as "subsidies" to anyone with a slick line of talk and maybe a bit of inside influence.
The "visionary" (quaaludes???) designers (aka ambitious permanent students) will live high on the hog for a few years just drawing silly pictures and issuing press statements before it all goes tits-up and they start again with another half decade of taxpayer-funded smoke, mirrors and champagne.
Not a bad lifestyle, all in all, even if it is ultimately one sponged off the taxpayer (ie us) with nowt to show for it.
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Old 19th May 2016, 18:08
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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this looks like

LightningStrike X-Plane ? Aurora

it is going to use the AE1107 turboshaft as used in the v-22 to drive 3 x 1 megawatt generators
will weigh 12000lb, 3000lb of fuel and 1500lb of payload
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Old 18th Jun 2016, 04:42
  #23 (permalink)  
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NASA just disclosed design of their X57 experimental electric plane.
They too are exploring many small props rather than a couple of large fans.
The small props on leading edge are used for takeoff and landing, larger motors on wing tips used in cruise.
NASA's X-57 Hybrid Electric Research Plane | NASA

http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/na...umber-new-name
This one doesn't seem to have VTOL capability.
Yes, image is an artists impression.

Mickjoebill

Last edited by mickjoebill; 18th Jun 2016 at 04:58.
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Old 18th Jun 2016, 05:43
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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One heck of a yaw moment when one engine stops......asymmetric flight would improve your leg muscles somewhat.
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Old 18th Jun 2016, 07:21
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Or you could just fire up a number of the T/O motors on that wing to bring it back into balance...

PDR
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Old 18th Jun 2016, 07:28
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Concepts like this have been done before. There was a Cessna 150(?) which was fitted with a tiny wing all within the propwash and on its sole flight appeared to fly very well - right up to the point where the engine stopped, revealing the essential weakness of the concept. When I get home I'll loook out the references for that one.
I'd forgotten about this - apols!. I've just looked it up and my memory was faulty. The aeroplane I was thinking of was the 1953 Larsen Speed Bird, which was based on a Taylorcraft BC-12:



PDR
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Old 19th Jun 2016, 02:40
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Don't know if I believe the claims made by NASA for the benefits of this concept.

"NASA’s aeronautical innovators hope to validate the idea that distributing electric power across a number of motors integrated with an aircraft in this way will result in a five-time reduction in the energy required for a private plane to cruise at 175 mph."

They claim the thinner wing will reduce drag in cruise flight. But it does not seem to come close to offsetting the added drag/weight of the 12 electric propellers that are not used in cruise flight.
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Old 6th Dec 2016, 06:29
  #28 (permalink)  
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The Venture Capitalist company "Atomico" are backing Lilium Aviation to the tune of €10M

Atomico - Great companies can come from anywhere



New pictures of the prototype/mockup
Big announcement





Mickjoebill

Last edited by mickjoebill; 6th Dec 2016 at 23:31.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 20:34
  #29 (permalink)  
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Lilium test flight

It flys.(unmanned)

https://youtu.be/ohig71bwRUE

For a measure of the potential significance of this test flight, read the previous posts from the many whom doubted it was possible.



Mickjoebill

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 20th Apr 2017 at 21:48. Reason: MJB, it's time you learned how to insert a YouTube link
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 21:41
  #30 (permalink)  
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Nice video editing

[QUOTE=mickjoebill;9747213]It flys.(unmanned)

https://youtu.be/ohig71bwRUE

Mickjoebill,

Please rewatch the video and pay close attention to the editing cut from the full scale non flying mockup to a much smaller flying model.

Also notice that the landing gear is different and no one is photographed next to the flying mode to give a reference to scale.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 21:42
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Erm...that looked like an RC model at about 1/4-1/3 scale (compare its size to the taxiway it landed on, and look at the wobble when it first lifted off).

If so I'm not sure what it proved.

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Old 21st Apr 2017, 02:19
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I was laughing so loud I nearly peed myself watching it, it was clearly a RC scale model, the video was a nicely edited bt of junk.

I'll take more interest when they fly with a person in the cockpit.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 15:49
  #33 (permalink)  
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Hey CTR, PDR1 and Fatmanmedia, in response to your claims about the video, Lilium Aviation posted the following;

As a founder, I can guarantee on behalf of our amazing investors and all you people out there, we did NOT use CGI or a size scaled model. This is the original size of our previous two-seated concept.

Their published timeline is for the first manned flight in 2019.

Mickjoebill

Last edited by mickjoebill; 21st Apr 2017 at 16:16.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 16:03
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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I've just watched it on a very big screen. I'd say it's full size, there's just too much detail for it not to be... Some armchair experts need to go to Specsavers...
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 16:13
  #35 (permalink)  
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Please provide weight data

I am willing to be convinced with two pieces of data.

Flying model size compared to non flying prototype shown earlier in the video.

Most importantly, the flying models actual weight.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 16:34
  #36 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by CTR View Post
I am willing to be convinced with two pieces of data.

Flying model size compared to non flying prototype shown earlier in the video.

Most importantly, the flying models actual weight.

A multicamera recording, along with a personal guarantee from Paddy, a co-founder, that it is their full size two seater in the video has already answered your first data request..but you still don't believe them, because...?


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Old 21st Apr 2017, 17:27
  #37 (permalink)  
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Because I have done the math...

Mic,

I don't believe because I am an engineer and have done the math. Battery and motor technology is not viable yet. And will likely not be for 10 to 20 years at best.

Regarding scale, the founder stated "This is the original size of our previous two-seated concept". He did not state it it was the same generous size as the mockup shown earlier in the video. I believe it is about 3/4 scale at best.

Regarding weight, I have seen mockups of full scale cars flying. Using one or two pies of composite cloth you could make a good scale size Lilium model that weighed under a 60 lbs fly. But this is far less difficult than what is required to make a real two passenger weight aircraft fly.

So give me real dimensions and weight of what is flying in the video. Then I can check my math.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 17:38
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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So all this happened at an airfield in Germany?

If it is a full-size, remotely piloted version where are the certification papers and NOTAMs required for legally flying an untethered SUAV of that size? Germany has rules about that sort of thing.

Personally I'm still sceptical and will remain so until the videos stop using the typical tricks used to obfuscate the size - showing it with nothing at all in the frame to scale it being one of the main ones.

I also don't believe that fans which are lifting what must be over 1,000kg of airframe could be anything like that quiet.

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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 03:42
  #39 (permalink)  
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"This is the original size of our previous two-seated concept".
The point he is making is the production model will be a four seater.
Do you agree that what was flown was a full size two seater craft, ie of a size that could fit two adults?

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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 05:23
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Auto....Auto......wanna see an AUTO
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