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EC225 crash near Bergen, Norway April 2016

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EC225 crash near Bergen, Norway April 2016

Old 30th Apr 2016, 12:28
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: North Sea
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Just for info, since the REDW incident, all oil and gas aircraft flying in the North Sea have to have a hums download and the data analysis before d next flight. this is a CRS requirement needing a signature from a qualified engineer.
Any HUMS issues between flights have to be logged and reported, delaying or stopping the next flight as necessary.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 12:38
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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REDHANDED (13 posts in 5.5 years, half on this thread): Well done on your rapid learning!!!!

At 08:26 you said:
Why are the authorities so against forcing the operators to monitor and use the HUMS data?
By 12:04 you have found the CAP that supports the UK regulation that requires HUMS (the Norwegian have a rule in the BSL too and EASA have published the rule to expand that across Europe):

The guidance to operators given in CAP 753 states that the period between the successful download and assessment of any primary VHM indicator, used for monitoring the engine and rotor drive system components, should not exceed 25 hours.
However that is the MEL limit not the guidance on how often to download*.

The CAA guidance earlier in that CAP is that HUMS should be downloaded ideally even during rotors running turnarounds.

Just for info, since the REDW incident, all oil and gas aircraft flying in the North Sea have to have a hums download and the data analysis before d next flight.
Though that was common practice with some operators before.

However, at this stage assumptions of what or might not have detected something and when are fantasy only.

but we went round and round this buoy at the time and it got tedious.
ahmen

* OGP don't even quote that as they still refer to a CAP that was redundant when CAP753 was issued in 2006! OGP guidelines are only for daily downloads (and I'm sure they would oppose rotors running HUMS downloads, especially offshore).
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 12:41
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Originally Posted by What happens if I pr View Post
Just for info, since the REDW incident, all oil and gas aircraft flying in the North Sea have to have a hums download and the data analysis before d next flight. this is a CRS requirement needing a signature from a qualified engineer.
Any HUMS issues between flights have to be logged and reported, delaying or stopping the next flight as necessary.
I know, but it's not stopping accidents happening. The alerts are only as good as the algorithms used to set them. We need more data inputs from the manufacturers and operators to enable better alert thresholds to be set so that warnings can be actioned in good time. I question the manufacturers current advice on how to act upon warnings from the HUMS. It was wrong wrt G-REDW
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 12:43
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
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In the video it is interesting to see that there are only four blades still attached.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 12:45
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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REDHANDED credit where credit is due, this point is sound.

The alerts are only as good as the algorithms used to set them. We need more data inputs from the manufacturers and operators to enable better alert thresholds to be set so that warnings can be actioned in good time.
Though there is no guarantee that every failure will be detectable.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 12:49
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by squib66 View Post
REDHANDED (13 posts in 5.5 years, half on this thread): Well done on your rapid learning!!!!

At 08:26 you said:


By 12:04 you have found the CAP that supports the UK regulation that requires HUMS (the Norwegian have a rule in the BSL too and EASA have published the rule to expand that across Europe):



However that is the MEL limit not the guidance on how often to download*.

The CAA guidance earlier in that CAP is that HUMS should be downloaded ideally even during rotors running turnarounds.



Though that was common practice with some operators before.

However, at this stage assumptions of what or might not have detected something and when are fantasy only.

ahmen

* OGP don't even quote that as they still refer to a CAP that was redundant when CAP753 was issued in 2006! OGP guidelines are only for daily downloads (and I'm sure they would oppose rotors running HUMS downloads, especially offshore).
Thanks, a prime example of why we aren't getting anywhere with safety! You think it's tedious to try and influence how we approach a subject that has potential to save lives?
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 12:53
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
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In the video it is interesting to see that there are only four blades still attached.
Not sure what video you are looking at, but the one of the rotor coming down appears (to me) to clearly show five blades.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 12:58
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by REDHANDED View Post
Tedious??!! Maybe if something was done to take the data and procedures more seriously lives would have been saved.
No. What is tedious is the the ill- and misinformed coming on and spouting off without knowing some basic details. Again, I direct that comment at nobody in particular.

I thought I would provide a source document of some facts (notwithstanding that the ditchings happened 4 years ago and a lot has gone on since then, Mitchaa mentions it above) that we can all use as a starting point for our discussions rather than what somebody was told in the pub by his mate who works offshore.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 12:59
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks, a prime example of why we aren't getting anywhere with safety! You think it's tedious to try and influence how we approach a subject that has potential to save lives?
No of course not!

Its just you are also firing a speculative blame out in all directions at the same time (including on 4 year-old accidents you had no prior comment on).
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 13:00
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Paused the video in multiple places and I only see four, mind you ay 64 years old and 49 years in the industry may have made my eyes a bit knackered.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 13:15
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
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There is a very clear photo on page 2 of this post that shows the rotor on the ground. Some videos are clearer than others as well - looks like all blades intact to me but of course damage not clear.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 13:16
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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I count 5 as well
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 13:32
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
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Professional helicopter pilots buy a ticket in the Great Gearbox Lottery every time we fly.

We have all heard of rotor head separation before but I believe that this is the first time it has ever been captured on camera.

To see that rotor head, the size of a small house, rotating down without the rest of the aircraft sent a chill right down my spine.

Yes the passengers would have been terrified but only the pilots would have known the absolute finality of what was happening.

Made an entry in my diary, simply says: "Bugger"
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 13:55
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by Max Contingency View Post
Professional helicopter pilots buy a ticket in the Great Gearbox Lottery every time we fly.

We have all heard of rotor head separation before but I believe that this is the first time it has ever been captured on camera.

To see that rotor head, the size of a small house, rotating down without the rest of the aircraft sent a chill right down my spine.

Yes the passengers would have been terrified but only the pilots would have known the absolute finality of what was happening.

Made an entry in my diary, simply says: "Bugger"
For the occupants sake I hope it turns out to be a siezure prior to fracture as the g forces would have done for them instantly.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 14:01
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Freeze frame shows 5 blades in video at various stages. IMO




Last edited by TylerMonkey; 30th Apr 2016 at 14:50.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 14:17
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Perhaps Redhanded would be well advised to educate himself where the industry is now with HUMS rather than look back at history and outdated CAA guidelines.
Safety Information | HeliOffshore

I also see 5 blades on the video!
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 14:20
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton
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condolences to all involved, another sad day.
on the subject of HUMS i'm glad to see my company checking after every flight. it takes 15mins to check.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 14:28
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Originally Posted by Apate View Post
Perhaps Redhanded would be well advised to educate himself where the industry is now with HUMS rather than look back at history and outdated CAA guidelines.
Safety Information | HeliOffshore

I also see 5 blades on the video!
Always happy to educate myself, thanks for the link. While I do, Maybe you could enlighten us as to where the industry is wrt HUMS.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 14:37
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
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LN-OJF

Originally Posted by Capt. Inop View Post
Better picture of the main rotor:


G-REDL

REDL_rotor2a.jpg
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