Logging Multi pilot time for EASA ATPL
Thread Starter
That didn't sound like commercial flying, but more like private time building.
trying to find a way out of doing the 14 EASA ATPL exams
Thread Starter
under EASA it's proper IFR multi-engine hours
IR(H) Instrument Rating | Aerial Helicopter - Rundflüge, Taxiflüge, Flugschule und Businessflüge
Experience in this industry means everything. On a sliding scale if you compare a Jetranger operation with a North Sea operation the experience of pilot required is totally different. Forget the licence type (although a Atpl is min required for P1) experience is what would be in question.
Jetranger operation on a helo value of £250k with max 4 pax requires a vfr cpl with min hours whereas a S92 helo with value of £28m and 19 pax capacity requires experienced pilots.
Getting into this industry as a private/self improver can be extremely difficult let alone expensive. Anyone who does not do their homework and expects to gain good employment soon after passing out needs a reality check.
Jetranger operation on a helo value of £250k with max 4 pax requires a vfr cpl with min hours whereas a S92 helo with value of £28m and 19 pax capacity requires experienced pilots.
Getting into this industry as a private/self improver can be extremely difficult let alone expensive. Anyone who does not do their homework and expects to gain good employment soon after passing out needs a reality check.
Thread Starter
Man you're annoying when you keep repeating "short cuts" and "cutting corners" WE GET IT!!
Like I said already I'm not trying to cut corners!! Yes I have 1000 hours in an R22 so what, I should kill myself? I never flown in Europe and I'd like to because that's where I'm from, I don't know anything about EASA regulations so I'm asking, (that's the point of a forum right?)
Why would that IFR training not get me an ATPL johni?
And
I'm assuming you're a pilot, how did you get to that straight road with no corners that took you where you are right now?
That could be, I think that to find a job is 50% experience 50% the people you know.
Like I said already I'm not trying to cut corners!! Yes I have 1000 hours in an R22 so what, I should kill myself? I never flown in Europe and I'd like to because that's where I'm from, I don't know anything about EASA regulations so I'm asking, (that's the point of a forum right?)
Why would that IFR training not get me an ATPL johni?
And
I'm assuming you're a pilot, how did you get to that straight road with no corners that took you where you are right now?
and even with an EASA multi crew licence you'll still be at the back of an ever- extending line of unemployed pilots.
"Experience in this industry means everything. On a sliding scale if you compare a Jetranger operation with a North Sea operation the experience of pilot required is totally different. Forget the licence type (although a Atpl is min required for P1) experience is what would be in question.
Jetranger operation on a helo value of £250k with max 4 pax requires a vfr cpl with min hours whereas a S92 helo with value of £28m and 19 pax capacity requires experienced pilots.
Getting into this industry as a private/self improver can be extremely difficult let alone expensive. Anyone who does not do their homework and expects to gain good employment soon after passing out needs a reality check." QUOTE Jeepys
Hmmm, Ok I'll bite at this statement. The S92 is very rarely hand flown, it has the latest and greatest avionics package and more than a few NS Captains have never really done anything else other than platform to platform work in a state of the art helicopter with full operational and engineering support available at all time. You mention experience, the Co pilot probably only has 300 hours on getting a job in the NS.
Not much experience there is there? Then after several years of this he/she will be a Captain with 3000 hours of boring airline type work and mostly straight and level cruise automated flying under their belt.
Now lets look at old mate in the Jet Ranger who is working a fire the size of a small city, precision drops onto Chimneys (burnt out trees) and saving houses whilst listening to 4 radios and getting instructions about drops from ground units. Hot environment and limited vis...no auto pilot here to help out or another crew member to look at gauges. You are on your own.
Or maybe he's doing 100 landings a day to unprepared sites during survey work, with no access to weather forecasts or any other support....just a bunch of Geologists and he is "The Aviation expert" in their eyes. You have got to know everything about your machine and how it works to be good in this sort of environment.
You're thinking about the UK, where pretty much none of this stuff happens but in the big world outside of CAA land there are very very experienced pilots still flogging around in light singles because thats where the challenges are. So please don't assume the bloke flying the light single is a newbie!
Utility flying beats the crap out of platform to platform work or deck to deck stuff. If the offshore money wasn't so good, I don't know many that would do it to be honest. Probably just the lazy ones and the guys who can't cut it in the utility world.
My two bobs worth.
Jetranger operation on a helo value of £250k with max 4 pax requires a vfr cpl with min hours whereas a S92 helo with value of £28m and 19 pax capacity requires experienced pilots.
Getting into this industry as a private/self improver can be extremely difficult let alone expensive. Anyone who does not do their homework and expects to gain good employment soon after passing out needs a reality check." QUOTE Jeepys
Hmmm, Ok I'll bite at this statement. The S92 is very rarely hand flown, it has the latest and greatest avionics package and more than a few NS Captains have never really done anything else other than platform to platform work in a state of the art helicopter with full operational and engineering support available at all time. You mention experience, the Co pilot probably only has 300 hours on getting a job in the NS.
Not much experience there is there? Then after several years of this he/she will be a Captain with 3000 hours of boring airline type work and mostly straight and level cruise automated flying under their belt.
Now lets look at old mate in the Jet Ranger who is working a fire the size of a small city, precision drops onto Chimneys (burnt out trees) and saving houses whilst listening to 4 radios and getting instructions about drops from ground units. Hot environment and limited vis...no auto pilot here to help out or another crew member to look at gauges. You are on your own.
Or maybe he's doing 100 landings a day to unprepared sites during survey work, with no access to weather forecasts or any other support....just a bunch of Geologists and he is "The Aviation expert" in their eyes. You have got to know everything about your machine and how it works to be good in this sort of environment.
You're thinking about the UK, where pretty much none of this stuff happens but in the big world outside of CAA land there are very very experienced pilots still flogging around in light singles because thats where the challenges are. So please don't assume the bloke flying the light single is a newbie!
Utility flying beats the crap out of platform to platform work or deck to deck stuff. If the offshore money wasn't so good, I don't know many that would do it to be honest. Probably just the lazy ones and the guys who can't cut it in the utility world.
My two bobs worth.
Last edited by Heliringer; 22nd Jan 2016 at 05:53.
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It never gets old how people are defending their piece of the grass......
You guys out there in the Jet Rangers have NO Idea how the Offshore business works...
Its not about "how good you land at unprepared landing sites", but about how well you know the (VERY restrictive) procedures that OGP demands.....
You can fly 50 ft above ground and smash the helicopter into a tight landing zone?
Brilliant-but it does not have one single piece of what it takes to fly 100% in line with the books-all the times.....
Have you ever heard of "Stabilized approach criteria", or "sterile cockpit procedures"-or do you have to google it?
I have done both sides-and i prefer any utility job over offshore flying; but offshore flying is where the "big bucks" are....
Offshore is (can be) also a retirement job.........unless you want to get back into a hot and sweaty cockpit, working your balls off......
You guys out there in the Jet Rangers have NO Idea how the Offshore business works...
Its not about "how good you land at unprepared landing sites", but about how well you know the (VERY restrictive) procedures that OGP demands.....
You can fly 50 ft above ground and smash the helicopter into a tight landing zone?
Brilliant-but it does not have one single piece of what it takes to fly 100% in line with the books-all the times.....
Have you ever heard of "Stabilized approach criteria", or "sterile cockpit procedures"-or do you have to google it?
I have done both sides-and i prefer any utility job over offshore flying; but offshore flying is where the "big bucks" are....
Offshore is (can be) also a retirement job.........unless you want to get back into a hot and sweaty cockpit, working your balls off......
Okay Heliringer perhaps I badly worded my post.
I was not implying that a Jetranger pilot is not experienced but that to get a job flying commercially in a 206 in Europe doing light commercial work will not require the most experienced pilot. Someone with 500+ hours would get a look in but a NS commander would have to be a ATPL holder and would have 2500+ min with so many being ME, IR, night hours and multi crew.
Yes the offshore job may not offer as much excitement as some of the utility work but it offers good pay, pension and a pretty stable career (although now is not a good time).
Are you still flying on the NS?
I was not implying that a Jetranger pilot is not experienced but that to get a job flying commercially in a 206 in Europe doing light commercial work will not require the most experienced pilot. Someone with 500+ hours would get a look in but a NS commander would have to be a ATPL holder and would have 2500+ min with so many being ME, IR, night hours and multi crew.
Yes the offshore job may not offer as much excitement as some of the utility work but it offers good pay, pension and a pretty stable career (although now is not a good time).
Are you still flying on the NS?
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I disagree, I love my offshore job. I love going to work every day. Great bunch of people, and love the job. I've done both instruction and charter before I went to Aberdeen. If the choice was 25k doing that, or offshore, I'll do offshore thanks.
you still haven't told me why that specific IR course in a SE would not get me an ATPL, if the course is approved by EASA why wouldn't it?
You would then have CPL/IR.
You then need MCC training, a MP type rating, 350 hours MP flight time and an ATPL check ride. Then you get an ATPL.
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what if....
Hy guys,
since you seem to be quite fit at this topic:
I have an EASA ATPL(H), I have a MPH Rating, MCC etc. but I have no IFR (yet).
Would it be enough to do the IR course on a SE helicopter ? Or does it have to be on a ME heli ?
Thank you,
HeliInn
since you seem to be quite fit at this topic:
I have an EASA ATPL(H), I have a MPH Rating, MCC etc. but I have no IFR (yet).
Would it be enough to do the IR course on a SE helicopter ? Or does it have to be on a ME heli ?
Thank you,
HeliInn
Thread Starter
Oh I understood that I can't get the ATPL cos the 350 hours of Multi crew, I thought you were saying that for some reasonthe Instrument Rating wasn't valid, I can always get CPL and IR and ATPL frozen which I guess you do the theory and then when you have the hours you do the rest I think, right? Not sure on that one either but I'll figure it out.
The way it used to work which I am sure is still the case:
Example: pass ATPL(H) ground school exams and associated flight test and you will have a shiny new CPL(H) licence drop through your door.
The frozen ATPL exam credits are valid for 3 years from either the date of last exam or flight test pass (cannot remember that bit but I thinks it's the former).
If you do your IR within this period then you will have a CPL(H) IR.
You can then spend so many years getting the rest of the requirements for the issue of ATPL(H), i.e MCC, Night etc.
When you have finally got all the requirements you can do the ATPL flight test upgrade and finally your ATPL(H) will drop through the door.
If you do not do your IR within the three years then you will lose the benefit of being able to do it without taking a number of exams (7 possibly) again.
If you don't want to go through the pain of doing many of the exams again then get the IR done within the three years and worry about the rest of the requirements later.
As I say this is how it used to be under JAR.
Example: pass ATPL(H) ground school exams and associated flight test and you will have a shiny new CPL(H) licence drop through your door.
The frozen ATPL exam credits are valid for 3 years from either the date of last exam or flight test pass (cannot remember that bit but I thinks it's the former).
If you do your IR within this period then you will have a CPL(H) IR.
You can then spend so many years getting the rest of the requirements for the issue of ATPL(H), i.e MCC, Night etc.
When you have finally got all the requirements you can do the ATPL flight test upgrade and finally your ATPL(H) will drop through the door.
If you do not do your IR within the three years then you will lose the benefit of being able to do it without taking a number of exams (7 possibly) again.
If you don't want to go through the pain of doing many of the exams again then get the IR done within the three years and worry about the rest of the requirements later.
As I say this is how it used to be under JAR.
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err, how is that possible?
