Lets talk drones
How is the CAA going to get transponders on these when they are not even mandated on gliders or paragliders - both of which I and my colleagues have had near misses with this year as they don't show up on TCAS and are very difficult to see until you are right on top of them.
Are you guys serious or just "old". Drones are coming - big style. They will completely swamp our airspace in every shape and form, be it Amazon delivering parcels, to sheep rearing, to aerial assessment of crop health, to filming individuals as they go about their sports and interests, to law enforcement, spying, journalism, selling houses, assessing building repairs, on and on and on.
Nothing will stop this tsunami of activity and the CAA are caught completely on the hop. There are even companies devising systems which knock drones out by interfering with their transmissions so that airfields can be protected, convoys etc etc.
get real.
This is most certainly the future. Commercial aircraft will become pilotless, certain manned helicopter activity redundant.
Be prepared
Nothing will stop this tsunami of activity and the CAA are caught completely on the hop. There are even companies devising systems which knock drones out by interfering with their transmissions so that airfields can be protected, convoys etc etc.
get real.
This is most certainly the future. Commercial aircraft will become pilotless, certain manned helicopter activity redundant.
Be prepared
I can agree that things are changing and drones are here to stay but am more concerned with the here and now. It isn't just drones,I've had experiences with paramotors flying at low level over our FATO and even using it out of hours without asking and with no radio,no advance warning,and apparently unregulated by the CAA.
Last edited by heli1; 14th Aug 2015 at 21:07. Reason: Correction
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Guys, do your research please. In the UK the CAA are far from being behind the curve. They are actually leading the field in regulating commercial drone operation. You need a 'permission to work' before being allowed to operate commercially. This involves ground school and a written exam, writing an OM-A and B and getting it approved and successfully passing a flight test with an examiner, carrying specialist insurance, providing a written risk assessment for every job, keeping log books for the machine and pilot and charging records for every battery. It's not something that everyone is going to put themselves through. Most of the more commonly used drones have software that prevents them from flying too close to airports, flying above 400 feet or more than 500 meters from the operator (these are the legally established limits which also include not flying in vis below 5k, within 50 mtrs laterally and vertically of persons, vessels, vehicles and structures not under your direct control etc ).
The main problem is that anyone can buy one. The best regulation would probably be to prevent purchase of a machine unless the buyer can prove that they are suitably qualified.
There is vast potential for valid commercial use of drones and they are definitely here to stay but maybe there are a lot of operators on here who are against them because they will surely take a lot of work from helicopters?
. And just to put my head right above the parapets, I am a fixed wing ATPL who also operates a drone business.....
The main problem is that anyone can buy one. The best regulation would probably be to prevent purchase of a machine unless the buyer can prove that they are suitably qualified.
There is vast potential for valid commercial use of drones and they are definitely here to stay but maybe there are a lot of operators on here who are against them because they will surely take a lot of work from helicopters?
. And just to put my head right above the parapets, I am a fixed wing ATPL who also operates a drone business.....
Thank you McDoo for a very good exposition of the situation. Best declare my interest here: my big bruvva (ex-RAF pilot) has just completed the licensing process described by McDoo, and is every bit as professional in his (and his observer's) approach to the task as any AOC holder should be. If I was only sharing the low-level airspace (and you don't get much closer to the ground than following 11kv wires much of the day) with operators like him I would be extremely comfortable and confident.
I am not particularly worried about them taking over my job; the range and versatility of a heli still beats UAS at least 98% of the time in our work, although there ARE specialised instances where a drone can achieve better imagery.
As for operating them at airfields - if you subscribe to CAA bulletins you'll see that one of the most recent INs concerns UAS ops at airfields. Who would want to? How about operators of large aircraft who want to carry out pre-flight/ post-flight inspections... I for one would not enjoy clambering over a Beluga to achieve the kind of look-see that I can give my EC135. Give me access to a good UAS and a competent operating team and I'd be delighted with the results.
Drones are here to stay - get them (and pocket l@sers...) out of the hands of the untrained and they'll be no more hazardous than anything else we have to deal with.
I am not particularly worried about them taking over my job; the range and versatility of a heli still beats UAS at least 98% of the time in our work, although there ARE specialised instances where a drone can achieve better imagery.
As for operating them at airfields - if you subscribe to CAA bulletins you'll see that one of the most recent INs concerns UAS ops at airfields. Who would want to? How about operators of large aircraft who want to carry out pre-flight/ post-flight inspections... I for one would not enjoy clambering over a Beluga to achieve the kind of look-see that I can give my EC135. Give me access to a good UAS and a competent operating team and I'd be delighted with the results.
Drones are here to stay - get them (and pocket l@sers...) out of the hands of the untrained and they'll be no more hazardous than anything else we have to deal with.
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Thank you McDoo for a very good exposition of the situation. Best declare my interest here: my big bruvva (ex-RAF pilot) has just completed the licensing process described by McDoo, and is every bit as professional in his (and his observer's) approach to the task as any AOC holder should be. If I was only sharing the low-level airspace (and you don't get much closer to the ground than following 11kv wires much of the day) with operators like him I would be extremely comfortable and confident.
I am not particularly worried about them taking over my job; the range and versatility of a heli still beats UAS at least 98% of the time in our work, although there ARE specialised instances where a drone can achieve better imagery.
As for operating them at airfields - if you subscribe to CAA bulletins you'll see that one of the most recent INs concerns UAS ops at airfields. Who would want to? How about operators of large aircraft who want to carry out pre-flight/ post-flight inspections... I for one would not enjoy clambering over a Beluga to achieve the kind of look-see that I can give my EC135. Give me access to a good UAS and a competent operating team and I'd be delighted with the results.
Drones are here to stay - get them (and pocket l@sers...) out of the hands of the untrained and they'll be no more hazardous than anything else we have to deal with.
I am not particularly worried about them taking over my job; the range and versatility of a heli still beats UAS at least 98% of the time in our work, although there ARE specialised instances where a drone can achieve better imagery.
As for operating them at airfields - if you subscribe to CAA bulletins you'll see that one of the most recent INs concerns UAS ops at airfields. Who would want to? How about operators of large aircraft who want to carry out pre-flight/ post-flight inspections... I for one would not enjoy clambering over a Beluga to achieve the kind of look-see that I can give my EC135. Give me access to a good UAS and a competent operating team and I'd be delighted with the results.
Drones are here to stay - get them (and pocket l@sers...) out of the hands of the untrained and they'll be no more hazardous than anything else we have to deal with.
I live close to an airport and know a lot of the folk there. I would love to do some publicity work for them but within the protected zone around the airport my drone won't even allow me to start the motors! There are some dodgy methods to possibly get around this but like your Bro, I'm far too professional to even consider attempting to do so as I can't make the risk assessment viable....
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Regarding enforcement of drone misuse, there are many licensed operators now whose businesses could be threatened by irresponsible users.
I can say that although the CAA can't be omnipotent, any such operator will not hesitate to report the bad guys if they come across them. At the moment the CAA are better at responding to this than they are at enforcing the rules on dodgy charters by non AOC operators....
I can say that although the CAA can't be omnipotent, any such operator will not hesitate to report the bad guys if they come across them. At the moment the CAA are better at responding to this than they are at enforcing the rules on dodgy charters by non AOC operators....
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McDoo - Three big difference compared to the rest of the flying world, here in la la land.
Drones are cheaper than push bikes.
Drones can be flown by anyone with a modicum of co-ordination.
Drones will proliferate in their hundreds if not thousands.
All of this will leave the CAA on the back foot - big time. They are massively understaffed currently and looking at further cutbacks. They are reducing their audit frequency's. They don't have a department that is proactive. They 'react' weeks if not months after the event.
Something very very sinister is going to happen before the Authorities wake up to the problems associated with drone ops.
Rules and regs are for ethical operators remember.
The CAA really have absolutely NO idea how to handle this new threat.......and it will become a threat.
Drones are cheaper than push bikes.
Drones can be flown by anyone with a modicum of co-ordination.
Drones will proliferate in their hundreds if not thousands.
All of this will leave the CAA on the back foot - big time. They are massively understaffed currently and looking at further cutbacks. They are reducing their audit frequency's. They don't have a department that is proactive. They 'react' weeks if not months after the event.
Something very very sinister is going to happen before the Authorities wake up to the problems associated with drone ops.
Rules and regs are for ethical operators remember.
The CAA really have absolutely NO idea how to handle this new threat.......and it will become a threat.
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Lets talk drones
I worked along side a drone for the last month up at Detour gold mine in N.Ontario. It was doing survey work of the pit. Was a tad concerned originally when I got the email advising this. All my ops work @500 AGL on a longline due to short distances hauling heavy loads. Said drone was going to operate @ 600 AGL. At the end of the day, caused me no problems. Drone Pilot very professional, emailed me their flight plan and times every morning and kept in touch on FM. Security also advised on FM when it was going to fly.
Pesky things hard to spot, I didn't see it once in a month, but the drone crew did understand that every 5-10 minute turn would be out a longline window for a couple. Gave me my airspace and we made it work.....Now Joe Bloggs and his super duper all lights and gadget drones.....Mmmm pleased I fly in the bush...we got bugs the size of drones!!
Pesky things hard to spot, I didn't see it once in a month, but the drone crew did understand that every 5-10 minute turn would be out a longline window for a couple. Gave me my airspace and we made it work.....Now Joe Bloggs and his super duper all lights and gadget drones.....Mmmm pleased I fly in the bush...we got bugs the size of drones!!
Hope fire season is treating you well up North....we got our ass handed to us on a plate down here in CA......
Problem with the drones down here is that anyone can afford one and they are all trying to get the CNN shot to sell to the news stations and do not understand or care that we are flying low level over the fires.....
Problem with the drones down here is that anyone can afford one and they are all trying to get the CNN shot to sell to the news stations and do not understand or care that we are flying low level over the fires.....
The future has already arrived:
https://www.airdog.com/
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-10250471.html
https://www.airdog.com/
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-10250471.html
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Are we not making a basic error in thinking of a universally available (and priced) drone in the same terms as a commercial sized (and priced) helicopter, just because they both fly and occupy airspace?
Doesn't a small shift in head space provide some better perspective? For example; if I want to buy a gun, ANY gun (In Australia) I have to submit a licence application, wait a few weeks for the process, attend a course, pass a test and then register (attach myself) to the serial number of any subsequent guns I buy. If I go out with my gun and kill somebody I will be locked up. If I even frighten somebody with my gun there's a good chance that I will also get prosecuted, I will certainly have my gun and my licence confiscated.
I and many of my farming neighbours have guns for perfectly legitimate purposes but there is a universal respect for the fact that they are dangerous. Fathers teach their sons great respect for that danger at a very early age. The licence course reinforces that. Peers consistently reinforce it. Ignorance of those dangers is no defence when a gun is used irresponsibly. In other words there is an established and universal social culture, allied to harsh and unforgiving laws.
Shouldn't a drone (based on cost, size, availability and danger factor) be regarded, and therefore dealt with, as more like a gun than an aircraft?
In those terms where would the main danger still lie? ... autonomy. Would you ever licence, or even allowed to be sold, an autonomous gun. I don't think so!
Asking a cut-back aviation regulatory body to be responsible for policing drones (below a certain size) isn't ever going to work. But there are plenty of options available for restricting the sale, the purchase and the use of any commodity that has the potential to kill.
Doesn't a small shift in head space provide some better perspective? For example; if I want to buy a gun, ANY gun (In Australia) I have to submit a licence application, wait a few weeks for the process, attend a course, pass a test and then register (attach myself) to the serial number of any subsequent guns I buy. If I go out with my gun and kill somebody I will be locked up. If I even frighten somebody with my gun there's a good chance that I will also get prosecuted, I will certainly have my gun and my licence confiscated.
I and many of my farming neighbours have guns for perfectly legitimate purposes but there is a universal respect for the fact that they are dangerous. Fathers teach their sons great respect for that danger at a very early age. The licence course reinforces that. Peers consistently reinforce it. Ignorance of those dangers is no defence when a gun is used irresponsibly. In other words there is an established and universal social culture, allied to harsh and unforgiving laws.
Shouldn't a drone (based on cost, size, availability and danger factor) be regarded, and therefore dealt with, as more like a gun than an aircraft?
In those terms where would the main danger still lie? ... autonomy. Would you ever licence, or even allowed to be sold, an autonomous gun. I don't think so!
Asking a cut-back aviation regulatory body to be responsible for policing drones (below a certain size) isn't ever going to work. But there are plenty of options available for restricting the sale, the purchase and the use of any commodity that has the potential to kill.