Offshore operations - maximum flying hours
Thread Starter
Offshore operations - maximum flying hours
I'm curious as to the maximum daily flying hours permitted for pilots in offshore operations in various parts of the world, and more particularly the North Sea. My company allows a maximum of 9 hours per day. My non-pilot base manager sees nothing wrong with rostering pilots to fly up to 9 hours a day as "that's what you're allowed to do."
Thread Starter
Thanks for that. I have had a look at CAP 371 and (depending on start time) it seems that 8 hours would be a "normal" daily limit. I assume individual companies can choose to impose a more restrictive limit (but why would they?).
I don't imagine 8 hours in an immersion suit in North Sea weather would be a lot of fun.
I don't imagine 8 hours in an immersion suit in North Sea weather would be a lot of fun.
Remind your non pilot manager that 9 hours is a LIMIT not a target.
In The UK the 8 hours limit is prescribed in the Air Navigation Order and therefore becomes an offence if it is breached unless for reasons of safety or emergency.
Although there is a daily limit, there are also 3 day, 7 day and 28 day limits which effectively mean the average daily flying over a year cannot be more than about 3.5 hours per working day based on a 4/2 roster plus a couple of weeks holiday.
In The UK the 8 hours limit is prescribed in the Air Navigation Order and therefore becomes an offence if it is breached unless for reasons of safety or emergency.
Although there is a daily limit, there are also 3 day, 7 day and 28 day limits which effectively mean the average daily flying over a year cannot be more than about 3.5 hours per working day based on a 4/2 roster plus a couple of weeks holiday.
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And there is the daily "working time" limit of 10h per day.
An unofficial calculation of the German CAA would be like this:
10h working time minus 15min "pre flight check" minus 30min "after last flight check" minus 5 min Start up (Block time) minus 5 min "shut down" (Block time ) would leave you with the maximum of 9h 05min flight time per day.
This time of 9h 05min would include the refuelling of the ship, so guess your realistic flight time per day.
An unofficial calculation of the German CAA would be like this:
10h working time minus 15min "pre flight check" minus 30min "after last flight check" minus 5 min Start up (Block time) minus 5 min "shut down" (Block time ) would leave you with the maximum of 9h 05min flight time per day.
This time of 9h 05min would include the refuelling of the ship, so guess your realistic flight time per day.
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In the US, the limits are 8 hours/day if any flying is single pilot, 10 hours/day dual pilot, with a 14 hour duty day limit. Take it for what it's worth. I've flown jobs which approached those limits, day in and day out.
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Gomer you Hero!
I've flown up to 8 hours and its knackering. 5-6 a working day on a full time job is just about right and tolerable.
There's always someone who kicks the arse out of it and wears it like a badge of honour. Acid test..........would you want you wife and kids behind Gomer doing 10 hours a day in a helicopter?
I've flown up to 8 hours and its knackering. 5-6 a working day on a full time job is just about right and tolerable.
There's always someone who kicks the arse out of it and wears it like a badge of honour. Acid test..........would you want you wife and kids behind Gomer doing 10 hours a day in a helicopter?
Too simplistic a question. There are many unconsidered variables that would be fodder in EASA-land for yet more regulation.
We can go 10 flying hours multi -crew, and if that's required the odd day to make it work then so be it. The next day won't have 10.
Are you living at home and driving to work each day -coming home after a long day to a cranky wife, broken hot water heater and rotten kids- not much rest to prepare for the next day. Or, are you equal time touring, 5star hotel, drop your underwear on the floor and the maid picks it up?
Is it a two hour straight run, no weather, to the rig on sheepskin seats, aircon and no suits? Or a day full of 10 min shuttles on pitching heaving decks?
Is the patronage obligated copilot trying to kill you every time he has the controls?
Any good chief pilot/mgr weighs all these factors to manage fatigue over a run period, no regulations required. Still, offshore is easy work compared to 1200 hrs/year of production/precision long lining, and lots of 10 hour+ days there, every day.
We can go 10 flying hours multi -crew, and if that's required the odd day to make it work then so be it. The next day won't have 10.
Are you living at home and driving to work each day -coming home after a long day to a cranky wife, broken hot water heater and rotten kids- not much rest to prepare for the next day. Or, are you equal time touring, 5star hotel, drop your underwear on the floor and the maid picks it up?
Is it a two hour straight run, no weather, to the rig on sheepskin seats, aircon and no suits? Or a day full of 10 min shuttles on pitching heaving decks?
Is the patronage obligated copilot trying to kill you every time he has the controls?
Any good chief pilot/mgr weighs all these factors to manage fatigue over a run period, no regulations required. Still, offshore is easy work compared to 1200 hrs/year of production/precision long lining, and lots of 10 hour+ days there, every day.
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Offshore operations - maximum flying hours
Yep my day often 10hrs precision/production longline in a 14hr duty day.....unprepared landing spots and rolling drums for fuel,in summer often 30 plus heat with every flying/biting/stinging bug you can imagine and no aircon. Living in a tent in a remote camp often in a swamp for 42 days straight. Or how about fires....low vis,hot, sweaty, multiple A/C in same airspace.In winter same same just -30 to -40. Gotta love utility work. Everyday different though!!......I'm currently living the dream swatting bugs,trying to stay cool and hydrated thinking of my crew change next week, cold beer and aircon. You offshore dudes got it easy!!!!
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Newfieboy...........an even bigger hero. Where do you dream these stories up....I mean really. 10 hours flying and 14 hours duty. Who in hell would insure that!
The question, seeing as you long line utility heros missed it! Was about offshore flying. That's moving live things....humans. Not lumps of conrete and freight.
Wear your badges of honour for working sooooooo hard and leave the important stuff like moving humans, to the rest of us where at least some common sense still prevails.
Malabo......where exactly in EASA land can you fly 10 hours a day? Utter b*llocks but feel free to join the willy waving contest!
The question, seeing as you long line utility heros missed it! Was about offshore flying. That's moving live things....humans. Not lumps of conrete and freight.
Wear your badges of honour for working sooooooo hard and leave the important stuff like moving humans, to the rest of us where at least some common sense still prevails.
Malabo......where exactly in EASA land can you fly 10 hours a day? Utter b*llocks but feel free to join the willy waving contest!
The question, seeing as you long line utility heros missed it! Was about offshore flying. That's moving live things....humans. Not lumps of conrete and freight.
Mmmhhh, Newfieboy's beer must have come in early this time.
Anyway, under Part.135, non scheduled operations, flight time is restricted to 8 hrs SP and 10 hrs MP in the last 24, if those are busted it becomes a complex affair to add mandatory rest time to the 10 hours already programmed.
If flying a heavy production job offshore GoM, it's not uncommon to top those 8 hours before the end of the day, requiring more than one pilot to complete the operation.
MP 10 flight hours days happen, not consistently, but depending on the contract to which the pilot is assigned they can be three or four times in a two weeks rotation.
Anyway, under Part.135, non scheduled operations, flight time is restricted to 8 hrs SP and 10 hrs MP in the last 24, if those are busted it becomes a complex affair to add mandatory rest time to the 10 hours already programmed.
If flying a heavy production job offshore GoM, it's not uncommon to top those 8 hours before the end of the day, requiring more than one pilot to complete the operation.
MP 10 flight hours days happen, not consistently, but depending on the contract to which the pilot is assigned they can be three or four times in a two weeks rotation.
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But DB .... I is not 100% with you .... 5-6 hours a day! How cushy, let's all join this club!
Whereas in your area probably with multiple customers, the operator may wish to work the backside off of you because Commercial only costed it with 4.2 pilots per aircraft - so year in year out 8 hours a day is draining.
Other areas / contracts around the world may be one single customer for shorter periods and so a higher daily rate may be acceptable. Surely it is, as someone intimated, beholden upon the Ops Manager and Safety Man or equivalents to manage the fatigue risk and be .... open to frank and honest reporting between customer and operator.
I have yet to be convinced accidents / incidents are mainly with a contributory factor of fatigue? Boredom and complacency more likely.
Whereas in your area probably with multiple customers, the operator may wish to work the backside off of you because Commercial only costed it with 4.2 pilots per aircraft - so year in year out 8 hours a day is draining.
Other areas / contracts around the world may be one single customer for shorter periods and so a higher daily rate may be acceptable. Surely it is, as someone intimated, beholden upon the Ops Manager and Safety Man or equivalents to manage the fatigue risk and be .... open to frank and honest reporting between customer and operator.
I have yet to be convinced accidents / incidents are mainly with a contributory factor of fatigue? Boredom and complacency more likely.
DB,
Cheer up buddy!
Who's having high thoughts of himself? How big is your badge?? You should have at least 6 stripes on each shoulder... 
You guys have 2 pilots, autopilot, coffee outbound, coffee inbound, dispatch, loaders, re-fuelers and all sort of support to keep your ass safe in the air all those 5-6 hours of the day... Yet, you seem to complain about how hard life is in the North Sea. You have all my sympathy
Without those worthless cowboy utility pilots (that didn't pass the offshore pilot-selection), there would be a lot less infrastructure around that you take for granted. A thought for the next time you go skiing in the Alps or when you charge your smartphone.
Your condescending know-it-all tone, just comes across as ignorant and grumpy. You must be a real treat to share cockpit with.
Tottigol,
As for Newfie, being based in Canada and not the GOM, the FAR 135 would therefore not apply.
Single pilot VFR nonscheduled ops in Canada, duty is limited 14hrs in 24 hrs, 60 Flighthours in 7 days.
Cheer up buddy!
leave the important stuff like moving humans, to the rest of us where at least some common sense
You guys have 2 pilots, autopilot, coffee outbound, coffee inbound, dispatch, loaders, re-fuelers and all sort of support to keep your ass safe in the air all those 5-6 hours of the day... Yet, you seem to complain about how hard life is in the North Sea. You have all my sympathy
Without those worthless cowboy utility pilots (that didn't pass the offshore pilot-selection), there would be a lot less infrastructure around that you take for granted. A thought for the next time you go skiing in the Alps or when you charge your smartphone.
Your condescending know-it-all tone, just comes across as ignorant and grumpy. You must be a real treat to share cockpit with.
Tottigol,
As for Newfie, being based in Canada and not the GOM, the FAR 135 would therefore not apply.
Single pilot VFR nonscheduled ops in Canada, duty is limited 14hrs in 24 hrs, 60 Flighthours in 7 days.