Plane crash in the Alps
Thread Starter
Plane crash in the Alps
Very impressive how the French got so many police helicopters to such a remote area, so quickly, for this very sad 'threat, risk and harm' event in the Alps.
Thoughts and prayers with the families and airline staff.
Thoughts and prayers with the families and airline staff.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Very impressive how the French got so many police helicopters to such a remote area, so quickly ...
I didn't realise the French police had any
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Police_(France)
Gendarmerie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Air Gendarmerie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 25th Mar 2015 at 06:51.
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How many police helicopters are there in the area Sky?
I didn't realise the French police had any
I didn't realise the French police had any
Forces aériennes de la Gendarmerie nationale ? Wikipédia
sorry Sid the gras is greener on the other side
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Thanks B73 
Ranty has indirectly and probably unintentionally answered my earlier question from the other thread, that asked about the distribution of 'French Police by association' helicopters.
In reference to NPAS's 20/30 minute circles, looking at the map on ranty's link, I think it shows that the UK has in fact some pretty good air cover.
Ranty has indirectly and probably unintentionally answered my earlier question from the other thread, that asked about the distribution of 'French Police by association' helicopters.
In reference to NPAS's 20/30 minute circles, looking at the map on ranty's link, I think it shows that the UK has in fact some pretty good air cover.
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In reference to NPAS's 20/30 minute circles, looking at the map on ranty's link, I think it shows that the UK has in fact some pretty good air cover.
Les french piloteurs are fully qualified policemen, actually the commander of an aircraft has some special rights regarding law enforcement as far as I remember.
To some stage they can somehow act on behalf of the state attorney.
C'est la vie - en France
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
In reference to NPAS's 20/30 minute circles, looking at the map on ranty's link, I think it shows that the UK has in fact some pretty good air cover.
Lol, since when did Scotland come under NPAS
Besides, if they want more air cover than they have moment, they could probably get it. Then again it must be sufficient as far as Police Scotland is concerned because otherwise they would be doing something about it.I'll agree about Wales, however looking at population distribution it is certainly a hot talking point. Do you not think though that with HusBos and HG going soon, that the Midlands is going to be a left a bit thin?
56 helicopters to cover (France) 640,679 km²
against
19 helicopters to cover (Eng) 130,395 km² + (Wales) 20,761 km² = 151,156 km²
France - 11,440 km² per helicopter
NPAS - 7,955 km² per helicopter
Just to clear it up, are the French army pilots seconded to the Gendarmerie and trained to be the equivalent of specials?
It's either nowt or summat - en Yorkshire
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I think it shows that the UK has in fact some pretty good air cover
SisSi, if you are talking about NPAS, I don’t think you will make it to Scotland in 20/30 minutes?
Please include Scotland if you talk about UK coverage - Mr. Salmond failed to seperate
I trust you know the answer about the frensch army pilots – please tell me if you do! I don't.
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In France you have 2 police forces: the Police Nationale and the Gendarmerie Nationale.
The police nationale is a civilian force doing police missions and in charge of 20% of the territory but 80% of the population.
The Gendarmerie is a military force doing police missions and in charge of 80% of the territory and 20% of the population. You see mostly the Gendarmerie in small town and the countryside. They have all the "police" helicopters and under an agreement provide the Police Nationale with helicopters if needed.
They are also in charge of 50% of the mountain rescue missions (the other 50% are flown by the Sécurité Civile).
Percentages are given as an indication as it changes every year.
They have a fleet of around 60 helicopters: Ec145, 135 and 350.
All its helicopter pilots' and crewmen are fully commissioned police officers, in every right. They can legally do everything a standard policeman can do, although for complex matters they will use ground personnel. Nevertheless they can witness and investigate.
Crewman can be either winchman, FLIR operator or flight navigation helper depending on the mission.
For the area where the 320 crashed the unit that first responded is Digne. They are a 145 mountain rescue unit, on immediate call during the day. From phone call to takeoff they usually manage less than 10 minutes. This unit belongs to a "group of air support units" based in Hyeres and they provided the backup 350 and 135.
Because of their combined mountain knowledge, police prerogatives and very short reaction times they usually end up being first on scene. The 145 provides a good payload to carry investigation or rescue units. The 135 is great for its FLIR and the 350 is a do it all helicopter.
It's pilots have either a military aviation background and joined the Gendarmerie with around 1500 hours or former ground units Gendarme. To be posted to a mountain unit you usually need around 1000 hours (usually more) and successfully pass a 100 hours mountain flying course.
They are not subordinate in any way to the Army aviation, it's a separate force. Nevertheless the French Army aviation provides the initial training and they have military flight licenses (and also have a basic civilian CPL), and a very few a civilian IR, FI, TRI or TRE.
Units have a chain of command but are usually very free (per military standards) to decide on their daily operations.
Their area of operation, except for some specific units, are rather very large. No way you reach any part of your area in 20-30 minutes. It is rather 40-50 minutes!
Can you join as a civilian or a foreigner? No.
How much do they fly a year: 200 hours?
Average salary: 2500-3500 euros met with included housing, 220 days worked, but almost no limit to daily duty.
Hope you found it informative!
Cheers.
Ps: just some info on the Gendarmerie helicopters as they were the closest and first on scene, but of course on such large events other actors come into play: Sécurité Civile, SAMU (EMS) and Armee de l'air (French Air Force).
The police nationale is a civilian force doing police missions and in charge of 20% of the territory but 80% of the population.
The Gendarmerie is a military force doing police missions and in charge of 80% of the territory and 20% of the population. You see mostly the Gendarmerie in small town and the countryside. They have all the "police" helicopters and under an agreement provide the Police Nationale with helicopters if needed.
They are also in charge of 50% of the mountain rescue missions (the other 50% are flown by the Sécurité Civile).
Percentages are given as an indication as it changes every year.
They have a fleet of around 60 helicopters: Ec145, 135 and 350.
All its helicopter pilots' and crewmen are fully commissioned police officers, in every right. They can legally do everything a standard policeman can do, although for complex matters they will use ground personnel. Nevertheless they can witness and investigate.
Crewman can be either winchman, FLIR operator or flight navigation helper depending on the mission.
For the area where the 320 crashed the unit that first responded is Digne. They are a 145 mountain rescue unit, on immediate call during the day. From phone call to takeoff they usually manage less than 10 minutes. This unit belongs to a "group of air support units" based in Hyeres and they provided the backup 350 and 135.
Because of their combined mountain knowledge, police prerogatives and very short reaction times they usually end up being first on scene. The 145 provides a good payload to carry investigation or rescue units. The 135 is great for its FLIR and the 350 is a do it all helicopter.
It's pilots have either a military aviation background and joined the Gendarmerie with around 1500 hours or former ground units Gendarme. To be posted to a mountain unit you usually need around 1000 hours (usually more) and successfully pass a 100 hours mountain flying course.
They are not subordinate in any way to the Army aviation, it's a separate force. Nevertheless the French Army aviation provides the initial training and they have military flight licenses (and also have a basic civilian CPL), and a very few a civilian IR, FI, TRI or TRE.
Units have a chain of command but are usually very free (per military standards) to decide on their daily operations.
Their area of operation, except for some specific units, are rather very large. No way you reach any part of your area in 20-30 minutes. It is rather 40-50 minutes!
Can you join as a civilian or a foreigner? No.
How much do they fly a year: 200 hours?
Average salary: 2500-3500 euros met with included housing, 220 days worked, but almost no limit to daily duty.
Hope you found it informative!
Cheers.
Ps: just some info on the Gendarmerie helicopters as they were the closest and first on scene, but of course on such large events other actors come into play: Sécurité Civile, SAMU (EMS) and Armee de l'air (French Air Force).
Last edited by EC145Pilot; 27th Mar 2015 at 22:04.
Plus you have SECURITE CIVILE (Groupement des Moyens Aériens Sécurité Civile) with ~ 30 EC145 and 4 AS350.
In the past they operated ALO III.
Callsign "DRAGON" - followed by the département number.
Nearest 145 was possibly Cannes followed by Grenoble.
In the past they operated ALO III.
Callsign "DRAGON" - followed by the département number.
Nearest 145 was possibly Cannes followed by Grenoble.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Thanks EC145Pilot; very clear & informative, merci 
rantanplane
Heard of NPAS Newcastle
Incase you missed it last time ranty;
Scotland has what it thinks is good enough, otherwise there would have been and would be more.
England and Wales (NPAS territory), have significantly more air cover than France
rantanplane
SisSi, if you are talking about NPAS, I don’t think you will make it to Scotland in 20/30 minutes?
Incase you missed it last time ranty;
Scotland has what it thinks is good enough, otherwise there would have been and would be more.
England and Wales (NPAS territory), have significantly more air cover than France
I have had the immense privelege of meeting several aircrew from PGHM and Sécurité Civile at the Air Commission of ICAR.
Plenty of EC145 plus other types. NVG capability. Winch equipped. Some amazing high altitude work. Scenes with multiple aircraft are not unusual.
Sécurité civile / Le ministère recrute / A votre service - Ministère de l'Intérieur
Les moyens aériens de la sécurité civile / La protection des personnes, des biens et de l'environnement / Nos missions / Sécurité civile / Le ministère - Ministère de l'Intérieur
https://www.facebook.com/AmicaleDuGr...SecuriteCivile
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...licopt%C3%A8re
Gendarmerie Nationale - Peloton de gendarmerie de haute montagne (PGHM)
Gendarmerie Nationale - Hélicoptères de la gendarmerie
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...licopt%C3%A8re
Plenty of EC145 plus other types. NVG capability. Winch equipped. Some amazing high altitude work. Scenes with multiple aircraft are not unusual.
Sécurité civile / Le ministère recrute / A votre service - Ministère de l'Intérieur
Les moyens aériens de la sécurité civile / La protection des personnes, des biens et de l'environnement / Nos missions / Sécurité civile / Le ministère - Ministère de l'Intérieur
https://www.facebook.com/AmicaleDuGr...SecuriteCivile
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...licopt%C3%A8re
Gendarmerie Nationale - Peloton de gendarmerie de haute montagne (PGHM)
Gendarmerie Nationale - Hélicoptères de la gendarmerie
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...licopt%C3%A8re
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Ok Sid you are right, just over to the border in 30 minutes 
the remaining ground cover up to John O'Groats, the Hebrides, the Western Ross doesn't matter 
but a French Ec 145 with winch could do some fantastic job in the mountains there. Any fuel left to hover when coming from Newcastle?
the remaining ground cover up to John O'Groats, the Hebrides, the Western Ross doesn't matter but a French Ec 145 with winch could do some fantastic job in the mountains there. Any fuel left to hover when coming from Newcastle?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Ok Sid you are right, just over to the border in 30 minutes the remaining ground cover up to John O'Groats, the Hebrides, the Western Ross doesn't matter but a French Ec 145 with winch could do some fantastic job in the mountains there. Any fuel left to hover when coming from Newcastle?
the remaining ground cover up to John O'Groats, the Hebrides, the Western Ross doesn't matter but a French Ec 145 with winch could do some fantastic job in the mountains there. Any fuel left to hover when coming from Newcastle?
p.s. Heard of this lot
SAR Coverage Map | Bristow Search and Rescue
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The little ec 135 from Newcastle wan't be any use regarding range and serving a wider area in Scotland. Fuel management has been proven to be difficult enough for the Glasgow based helicopter. However, the French style police 145 with NVG and a winch would make lot of sense for Police Scotland air support and the local mountain rescue teams if based in the central belt, perhaps the Clyde heliport, of course not based in Newcastle. And you don't need to call out the big ships all the time for taking just one disorientated and exhausted hill walker off a mountain top.
Once you stop laughing, get off the floor, think about it!
Edit: I am sure I will become familiar with the Bristow scheme once it is fully established and operating from the new bases.
Once you stop laughing, get off the floor, think about it!
Edit: I am sure I will become familiar with the Bristow scheme once it is fully established and operating from the new bases.
Last edited by rantanplane; 28th Mar 2015 at 03:58.
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Thanks EC145Pilot and well spotted RVDT, Cannes and Grenoble were the nearest.
4 EC145 and 1 EC135 from the Gendarmerie
3 EC145 from the Securité Civile
1 AS355 and 6 AS330/332 from Army and Air Force
And 1 ... C135 FR ( Air Force tanker) used as radio relay.
4 EC145 and 1 EC135 from the Gendarmerie
3 EC145 from the Securité Civile
1 AS355 and 6 AS330/332 from Army and Air Force
And 1 ... C135 FR ( Air Force tanker) used as radio relay.
French police (Police Nationale) use the Sécurité Civile EC145 for their duty but also the Gendarmerie helicopters in the area where no Sécurité Civile aircrafts are available.
The Gendarmerie currently operates 58 helicopters.
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so where is this Fench 145 coming from to give such a better service than NPAS Newcastle?
Sécurité Civile EC145 came from Cannes (Dragon 06), from Grenoble (Dragon 38-1) and a third one probably came from the Alpe d'Huez (Dragon 38-2).
SAMU 05 EC135 came from Gap.