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Save the UK Police Air Support - e-petition

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Save the UK Police Air Support - e-petition

Old 26th Feb 2015, 14:03
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Save the UK Police Air Support - e-petition

Please take a minute to sign the e-petition to scrap the proposed cull of UK police air support.

Stop the Downsizing of our National Police Air Service - e-petitions

If you have longer than a minute, please go see your local MP.

Thank you
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 17:17
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TC

Thank you for making a pointless comment and keeping this thread at the top of the pile.
More of the same please.
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 17:27
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Signed. How many signatures do they need before the end of March? Can't believe they're considering downsizing the Police Helicopter force!
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 18:16
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There are two e-petitions running for this at the moment;


Re-evaluate Future Provision of National Police Air Service in Rural Areas - e-petitions
Re-evaluate Future Provision of National Police Air Service in Rural Areas

Responsible department: Home Office

The National Police Air Service (NPAS) have announced that a number of existing police helicopter bases are to close.

The NPAS say that 98% of the population will be within 20 minutes flying time from a police air base.

This is all well and good if you live in an urban area where the 20 minute range circles overlap providing air cover from more than one helicopter base.

In rural, sparsely populated areas however, helicopter cover will be reduced as these areas are further than 20 minutes from any of the proposed air bases.

The areas at risk are large areas of rural Wales, East Anglia, Cornwall, Cumbria and the Lake District.

Please sign this petition to ask for a re-evaluation of this important service.
Stop the Downsizing of our National Police Air Service - e-petitions
Stop the Downsizing of our National Police Air Service

Responsible department: Home Office

This petition is to stop the closure of 10 NPAS helicopter bases which currently serve the UK Police Service.

The bases facing closure in 2016 are; Rhuddlan, Halfpenny Green, Pembrey, Ripley and Sheffield.

Durham Tees Valley, Warton, Wattisham, Husbands Bosworth and Lippitts Hill will close by 2017.

This will leave huge areas of the UK without any realistic air-support leaving the public at risk.


206 - I think this answers your question;

HM Government e-petitions
What are e-petitions?

"e-petitions are an easy, personal way for you to influence government and Parliament in the UK. You can create an e-petition about anything that the government is responsible for and if it gets at least 100,000 signatures, it will be considered for debate in the House of Commons. You can find more information about how the House of Commons deals with e-petitions on the Backbench Business Committee website"
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 21:27
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The people, probably all retired now, who made it what it was.

Thomas Coupling, well said, and it's a shame that Sky Sports lacks even some of your experience in this field.

There is no money for old fashioned air support, because there is no appetite for it in the corridors of power. As usual, it matters not whether it is a good idea, what will be will be, and it's not what used to be!

Thomas Wolfe was right, you can't go back.

The people now running the ASU "empire" don't want to hear about how is used to be. The emperor's new clothes are so much cheaper than the old way, and that's what they men in grey suits are telling everyone to provide, a cheaper service.


We hear people talking about "Dixon of Dock Green" having inspired a notion of old fashioned bobbying, and that image having been replaced with "The Sweeney", with Jack Reagan (Sheepskin Jackets & long hair) which in turn was replaced by "The Bill" and now with "Road Wars" as the current window on the job.

How do we go about finding a way to describe this "old fashioned" air support that we all miss?

Who would be your favourite character from the golden days of air support?


No names at this stage; Feel free to add to the list.

The northern UEO with less than ten years service. Legend, that's not a career, it's a tour of the building.

The unit who (almost) all had pilot's licences.

An ex army (SAS) Major who was a Chief Super but allegedly got bumped to the HO to do Air Support as he didn't get on with his Chief.

{ & his Oppo } The civvy from CAA who regulated the early days. Really nice bloke.

A "Lucky" Merseyside guy who got to end of his (ten year) Tenure, transfers out to a project at HQ. Project turns out to be, two years to find a new location for the ASU, finds it, sets it up, rejoins the unit after 2 years, with his ten year counter reset.

Pilot, not ex mil, who insists on referring to the rest of the crew as Knob Head Woodedntops. Ends up driving airliners.

Fixed wing crew member who blew up two APUs in the same week after being told not to touch the equipment.

The amateur journalist Pilot who went flying with the fuel caps sitting in the toe holes and came back early and out of fuel.

Female Sgt who holds on to a prisoner she had captured, having landed, and leaped out of the aircraft, "single crewed" and got a broken arm for her troubles.

A former Lynx display pilot who starred in a crashing squirrel video. "The door came loose but didn't come off, it just went far enough back to go into the tail rotor"

The UEO who regaled his audiences with tales of being able to strip and re assemble a Bren Gun whilst blindfolded, and of "Interviewing" suspects by the application of brute force.
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 21:34
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They're not seriously proposing to have no helicopter support in the UK police are they?

Or would it be provided by some other agency?
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 21:44
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I'll add to the list air police, only this one comes not from the past, but the present and future of air support.

The head of an aviation 'business' who's only experience with choppers comes from sticking his own into female colleagues. Boom!

P.s. 12 years in air support.
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 22:00
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The door came loose but didn't come off, it just went far enough back to go into the tail rotor
It wasn't a door, but an part of an engine cowling which came off. The reason for it coming loose was never established.

Here's two more. A UEO who had no more idea about running an Air Support than my Aunt Bessie.

A DUEO who stated publicly that he'd only send Observers on (free) Flight Safety Courses when it became compulsory.
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 08:59
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I believe Robinson make a police helicopter .

Joking aside ec 135's and 145's cost a fortune why not in more rural areas use singles like 206's and 500's ? I know under current legislation they would be more limited in where and when they could go but if the French can fly 350's over London for a push bike race why can't the police

Cbs
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 10:43
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Crazy,

Don't matter its still public service rules, and has to be twinned regardless of whether flying over one person, one sheep or a whole city...the notion is, for safety = twin. Also to carry the necessary equipment and fly in not brilliant weather conditions and pretty much around a clock, the single engine or single engined piston ain't gonna work.

Back in the late 70s, 80s, there were trials and use of single engined for police air support such Bell 206 and one leased AS350 with Mitsubishi logo to D & C.

There have been some exceptions with some public service ops electricity- with say the likes of the former short lived Schweizer 333 and Western Elec using Bell 206B

I knew the local French tv stations like RTE and RTL were using the likes of Helifrance with AS355 for the filming of Tour de France last year as they started in my neck of the woods but didnt see any Gendamarie AS350. Yes usually here its twin AS355 fro SKy or ITN or Beeb havent seen any single engined camera ships bar FlyingPixx R44. Yes there were Gendmarie outriders and vans escorting the cyclists but the only police helos I saw were the NPAS -in this case Suffolk force's EC135t2

Here are my photos from the event which started here in Cam (also on another thread below)

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/543...eng-ships.html











and said Gendamarie



Cheers

Last edited by chopper2004; 27th Feb 2015 at 11:02.
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 11:13
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Funny how the vast majority of US police helicopters are single engine and there isn't much of an issue there. Sure... If you can afford it, go twin... But that's more because of all the equipment you're putting in... Not the safety factor.
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 13:37
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Speaking of the equipment how much is actually used every time it's on a job ? Camera , spotlight and radios I get what else does it need ?

CBS
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 15:01
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Eyeballs.....
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 19:59
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To be fair having watched to many episodes of Police Intercepters how do you justify a helicopter 3 police units and a dog so you can arrests a guy who then gets a caution ?

CBS
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 21:38
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CBS, spot on. As an outside observer I don't get it. They operate an expensive twin with all the necessary support and, as far as I can see, either spend their time buzzing around like the keystone cops with the nightsun on trying to follow a scrote in a stolen car, and IF they do manage to catch them it really doesn't matter as the guy will be out the next night doing it again. Or they are over the city filming a crowd in case somebody does something wrong and they may have it on tape.

I believe that there is an argument for a level of air support, but they really don't need all the toys that they have at the moment.

I know that if you are in the job you will see it differently, as its how you make your living and turkeys don't vote for Christmas, but as a tax payer all I see are big boys toys.

A few years ago the local plod boasted that in the last couple of years the helo had helped recover over 200K of stolen goods, the machine must have cost a few million in that time!
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 21:58
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That attitude stinks. If you only seek value for money you have lost. Why not stop chasing muggers, they only nick a few quid. If someone beats the crap out of an innocent, ahhhhh stuff it, too expensive to investigate.
The fact is that helicopters are good at catching cars, wether a scrote or an armed robber is driving. They make criminals think twice, (doesnt always stop them). If you can afford it, get the right tools for the job, whatever the cost. If you cant afford it, stop pretending things are better and just get rid totally. Put up or shut up.
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 22:30
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Sure, if you have the cash to spare then fine have what you want. When money is tight then spend it where it gives best value.

Why don't you have a chopper for every station then? Based on your argument that would be the correct use of resources.

Don't kid yourself that the bad guys are put off by the thought of a helicopter, they don't care (if only because the risk is made worth taking by the lamentably poor sentencing - not a police decision I know).

Most people know that police are not there to stop crime, mostly they record it (if they can't find a reason not to).

A while ago we had a break-in at work, I was called out a 1am and the chap in a uniform started to take my statement. Halfway through his radio chirped and he had to go - blue lights flashing. I haven't seen him or anybody else since (18 months ago)
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Old 28th Feb 2015, 01:05
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Crazeybroadsword - topradio. I suppose it all comes down to whether you believe in the word of law at all. What does law matter? If its inconvenient to me to abide by it why should I comply?
That old guy down the road, he's passed it, an anyway I don't like the way he looks. if I bump him off who cares? Yes I know its against the law but what value is he giving to society? I'll actually be saving everyone money if I take him out.
Is that what you want? Whether the law is enforced or not comes down to how much it costs?
The Guy in the ASU gets to hear about a really dangerous vehicle pursuit that he could quite quickly bring to an end, - its putting everyone's life at risk. So should he deploy until he knows whether the driver has (a) committed murder or (b) failed to take out Insurance? Your decision! I know you wont go. Its only later you find out he shot dead 8 people in a bar because he was refused a drink. How's the cost benefit scale looking now?
TF
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Old 28th Feb 2015, 02:54
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You make the UK sound like New York Tigerfish however I see you are a police aviation consultant so that is your brief.

I have pointed out before most of the time UK police ASU money and manpower is wasted on mundane
petty crime such as this incident.

First published Wednesday 12 November 2014.

A van driver was arrested on drug charges and two other suspects fled from police in Crayford on Monday evening (November 10).

Met police officers noticed a van at the Tower Retail Park in Crayford Road and decided to investigate it further.

They stopped the vehicle at around 10.45pm and arrested the driver, a 19-year-old man, on suspicion of possession of cannabis.

Two of the passengers in the van ran off and the Met police helicopter helped search for the suspects, which have not yet been traced.

Enquiries continue and the driver has been bailed until January 7.

The bill for the helicopter must run to thousands on a petty crime that will not result in a custodial sentance.

Another example here over a non arrest domestic.

First published Monday 23 February 2015 in News
Last updated 22:36 Monday 23 February 2015
A police helicopter was seen circling Bourne End last night with officers now confirming they were called about a domestic disturbance.

Readers contacted the Bucks Free Press because of the police presence in the village yesterday evening and Thames Valley Police have now confirmed they were called at about 6.45pm.

No-one was arrested and officers said they could not confirm any other details about the “domestic issue”.

Helicopter crews had been above Bourne End at about 5.50pm that evening, with the official NPAS Benson Twitter account reporting a search for a vehicle following a domestic incident.

Decades ago a local PC on a bike would solved such events with some calm advice. Now the police gomin all guns blazing.

Incidents such as the above are happening every day in the UK.

Last edited by Romeopapa; 28th Feb 2015 at 03:05.
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Old 28th Feb 2015, 08:43
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RP,

I have pointed out before most of the time UK police ASU money and manpower is wasted on mundane petty crime such as this incident.
In your first example, what if known associates of the arrested man in the van were wanted murderers?

In your second example, how can you possibly know the previous history of that address and more specifically what happened that particular evening. If you read your post, the helicopter was looking for a vehicle. Just because no arrests were made, doesn't mean there was no baddy to arrest (Carl Mills ring any bells?)

There's always a bigger picture my friend, personally I have seen your so called mundane and small incidents turn into some quite large ones.
Please define for us 'mundane petty crime' and 'small incident' .
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