R66 flight in snow prohibited
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Joined: Jul 2008
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From: In the Alps
R66 flight in snow prohibited
I was pretty amazed to find out that flight in blowing or falling snow is prohibited by the R66 POH. In winter time, occasional snowfall is not too uncommon, so this is quite a significant operational limitation. The R66 is already on the market for quite a while in FAA land, did nobody there complain about this yet ? Or is the R66 just used for tours in FL and CA ?
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: USA
I would bet it is work yet to be performed to assure that snow/ice doesn't form around engine inlets. The US requires extensive testing to show that the engines run happily in flight from hover to Vne. Until these tests are entirely successfully passed, the prohibition is a blanket one.
Joined: Dec 2011
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From: Europe
so this is quite a significant operational limitation
Does that mean Swiss operators buy helicopters ( for example, 4 R66 have been registred in the last two months) and them look at their capabilities once they've received them ? Sorry, I can't imagine that.
Last edited by HeliHenri; 6th February 2015 at 20:52.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: In the Alps
Does that mean Swiss operators buy helicopters and them look at their capabilities once they've received them ?
@Nick: I agree, it's all about the engine air intake, which isnt positioned too bad. But the FAA type certificate has been issued in 2010 already, is this taking really that long ?
Joined: Dec 2011
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From: Europe
The Cabri G2 was also bought here by operators and it has a minimum operating temperature of -5 deg celsius
The G2 is certified for flight in snow conditions and the Minimum Operating Temperature is - 20° C.
By the way Swiss operators still buy G2, Swiss Helicopter AG oerates 3 G2 and will receive a fourth one this month.
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: I am not sure where we are, but at least it is getting dark
It doesn't have any snow deflectors (yet), so is that really surprising?
The good ol' 206 also can't fly in snow, unless you have the optional snow kit (particle separator, inlet deflectors, auto relight).
The good ol' 206 also can't fly in snow, unless you have the optional snow kit (particle separator, inlet deflectors, auto relight).
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Joined: Jul 2008
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From: In the Alps
Nope, AS350 B2 can fly unrestricted down to a visibility of 1500m in snow. 10 minutes between 1500m and 800m. I don't think this really a limiting operational factor, because 1500m coincides with SVFR limits, i.e. you can't get out of the airport anyway if vis is below 1500m.
Joined: Feb 2015
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From: Colorado
I was just at the Robinson Safety Course last month and Kurt Robinson mentioned the blowing snow limitation for the R66. He said they have a ship sitting in Canada and they are just waiting for the proper conditions to do the testing and get the certification. He didn't elaborate on what the specific conditions have to be, but he did say they've been waiting some time to get it done.
It may not be around the corner, but it does sound like the certification will be coming at some point down the road.
It may not be around the corner, but it does sound like the certification will be coming at some point down the road.
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From: USA
The proper FAA conditions are intense, heavy snow of the warm, sticky type. Typically 1/4 mile vis in snow and blowing snow without fog, and OAT at -4C or warmer.
These are not easy to find. The French seem to allow parsing the test out, as reported, with intermediate visibilities, the FAA and CAA have been very reluctant because it isnt very easy to control (ie you are flying in supposedly permitted 1500 meter vis in snow and now it is down to 1000. You are in violation of an operating limit, do you fly to the nearest jail? Land immediately? Suffer an engine failure and make excuses?
These are not easy to find. The French seem to allow parsing the test out, as reported, with intermediate visibilities, the FAA and CAA have been very reluctant because it isnt very easy to control (ie you are flying in supposedly permitted 1500 meter vis in snow and now it is down to 1000. You are in violation of an operating limit, do you fly to the nearest jail? Land immediately? Suffer an engine failure and make excuses?
