Differential training
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2
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From: Germany
Differential training
Hey guys,
I was searching through the EASA rules a long time. I cannot find anything about logging time without differential training.
My question:
Is it ok to log the flown time as a copilot WITHOUT a differential training ?
e.g. I have a typerating on AS365 and it is being entered in your license as followed: Typerating AS365/EC155
So may I log the time on EC155 ?
Thank you!
I was searching through the EASA rules a long time. I cannot find anything about logging time without differential training.
My question:
Is it ok to log the flown time as a copilot WITHOUT a differential training ?
e.g. I have a typerating on AS365 and it is being entered in your license as followed: Typerating AS365/EC155
So may I log the time on EC155 ?
Thank you!
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: UK, sometimes
It might be more training than you actually think, or hope it will be.
Whilst they have combined the 365 and 155 into the Dauphin family with regard to the actual type rating, the differences training required is basically the same, if not more, than that required for an initial type rating!
Have a look at the OEB from EASA:
http://easa.europa.eu/system/files/d...2-08022012.pdf
It is quite a long document, but the tables towards the bottom of it show the suggested training between the different 365 variants and the 155.
From a 365 N2, they suggest 30hrs ground school, plus the ground exam, followed by 3hrs VFR, and appropriate hours for IFR. Then the PC. So a type rating course!!
Good luck.
So back to the question; you cannot log time as you are not rated on that variant. So are not operating crew.
Whilst they have combined the 365 and 155 into the Dauphin family with regard to the actual type rating, the differences training required is basically the same, if not more, than that required for an initial type rating!
Have a look at the OEB from EASA:
http://easa.europa.eu/system/files/d...2-08022012.pdf
It is quite a long document, but the tables towards the bottom of it show the suggested training between the different 365 variants and the 155.
From a 365 N2, they suggest 30hrs ground school, plus the ground exam, followed by 3hrs VFR, and appropriate hours for IFR. Then the PC. So a type rating course!!
Good luck.
So back to the question; you cannot log time as you are not rated on that variant. So are not operating crew.
Last edited by Hyds Out; 29th January 2015 at 09:08. Reason: Additional info
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,371
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From: Den Haag
I think this reflects the fact that originally they were classed as different types. The concept of differences training is quite valid when looking at moving from an S76A to an S76A+ - for instance - but becomes questionable in the case quoted.
The requirement is stated in Part FCL.710 and the UK CAA guidance (in CAP804) states this:
NOTE: There is no time stipulated, contrary to JR's comments....
The requirement is stated in Part FCL.710 and the UK CAA guidance (in CAP804) states this:
FCL.710 Type ratings – variants
(a) In order to extend his/her privileges to another variant of helicopter within type rating, the pilot shall undertake differences or familiarisation training. In the case of variants within a type rating, the differences or familiarisation training shall include the relevant elements defined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part-21.
(b) If the variant has not been flown within a period of 2 years following the differences training, further differences training or a proficiency check in that variant shall be required to maintain the privileges.
(c) The differences training shall be entered in the pilot’s
(a) In order to extend his/her privileges to another variant of helicopter within type rating, the pilot shall undertake differences or familiarisation training. In the case of variants within a type rating, the differences or familiarisation training shall include the relevant elements defined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part-21.
(b) If the variant has not been flown within a period of 2 years following the differences training, further differences training or a proficiency check in that variant shall be required to maintain the privileges.
(c) The differences training shall be entered in the pilot’s
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,371
Likes: 926
From: Den Haag
ut it does state in AMC2 FCL.725(a)(d) difference training of 1hr.
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: After all, what’s more important than proving to someone on the internet that they’re wrong? - Manson
And the taxonomy with respect to "variant".
There are no "variants" in the TCDS for these aircraft just different "models".
There are no "variants" in the TCDS for these aircraft just different "models".
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 73
Likes: 2
From: uk
Agreed, I think more EASA OEB reports will be produced which may move the goal posts for initial TR too.
I suppose the above will have to be taken into account along with the minimum requirements set out in Part-FCL to end up with a course laid out in the ATO which is acceptable to relevant CAA.
I presume difference training must be an approved ATO course?
One last thing, does "should" = must? Or is it highly frowned upon if you don't?
I suppose the above will have to be taken into account along with the minimum requirements set out in Part-FCL to end up with a course laid out in the ATO which is acceptable to relevant CAA.
I presume difference training must be an approved ATO course?
One last thing, does "should" = must? Or is it highly frowned upon if you don't?
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 280
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From: bora scirocco
@ss... only "Shell" = must
No. Only for the initial TR. For diff. trng TRI/TRE only is enough (and his sign in your logbook). I think.
JR
I presume difference training must be an approved ATO course?
JR
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 145
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From: UK
To amplify what Jet Ranger said:
Compare and contrast with a similar statement with regard to, say, class or type ratings:
Notice the difference?
FCL.710 Class and type ratings — variants
(a) In order to extend his/her privileges to another variant of aircraft within one class or type rating, the pilot shall undertake differences or familiarisation training. In the case of variants within a type rating, the differences or familiarisation training shall include the relevant elements defined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part-21.
(a) In order to extend his/her privileges to another variant of aircraft within one class or type rating, the pilot shall undertake differences or familiarisation training. In the case of variants within a type rating, the differences or familiarisation training shall include the relevant elements defined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part-21.
FCL.725 Requirements for the issue of class and type ratings
(a) Training course. An applicant for a class or type rating shall complete a training course at an ATO. The type rating training course shall include the mandatory training elements for the relevant type as defined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part-21.
(a) Training course. An applicant for a class or type rating shall complete a training course at an ATO. The type rating training course shall include the mandatory training elements for the relevant type as defined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part-21.
