R44-Cirrus Mid Air Collision Kills Three

[007helicopter]

I fly the same fixed wing that survived due to the Chute being deployed, I hear on the Cirrus forum that possibly one of the R44's was practicing Auto's at the field, I believe the Helicopter was operated by a training school at the field.

In the USA what height would you typically initiate these for training purposes?

Also would the controller clear a Helo for a go around after a practice auto? I am assuming that would be the wrong phrase?

[Gordy]

In the USA what height would you typically initiate these for training purposes?

Typically 500 feet. Helicopters will "normally" stay at or below 500' and remain inside the fixed wing pattern.

Also would the controller clear a Helo for a go around after a practice auto? I am assuming that would be the wrong phrase?

"Normally", when operating at a tower airport a helicopter will spend time hovering and then ask for

"Helicopter 123--On the Go".... effectively asking to take off, fly the pattern to a full stop landing.

A "typical " tower clearnce would be:

"Helicopter 123, cleared take off cleared land" therefore no need to reppost base or anything.

[aa777888]

According to the ATC audio I heard on the internet (for what that's worth), 18Q, the involved helicopter, requested left closed traffic to the grass, was cleared to depart taxiway Alpha and instructed to report turning left base. No guidance as to altitude was given, which implies, but in no way guarantees, that they flew a standard pattern altitude of approx. 1000 AGL or 1300 MSL for light aircraft. If they had intended to do auto's it would normally be from pattern altitude or slightly lower. On the recording I heard there was no report turning left base from 18Q, however this is somewhat unsurprising as ATC got involved delivering a lengthy IFR clearance on tower frequency at or around the time the left base call might be expected. After this another helicopter in the pattern was instructed to maintain 1000 MSL due to traffic. Clearance to land was provided to the Cirrus even though he reported only two of three helicopters in sight, which is interesting to say the least. The disturbing audio indicating the incident occurs approx. two minutes after 18Q was cleared for departure on the recording I heard, which includes the disturbing transmissions, and can be found here. However it is noted that silent periods have been edited out, so timelines may be deceiving.

In the recording on this page, again which contains the disturbing audio, more detail is provided post-incident wherein ATC calls each helicopter to identify which ship was down.

Truly a horrific event.

[aa777888]

Gordy's description of typical altitudes and radio calls for heli training in the pattern do not mirror my experience. At a relatively busy, towered airport, in R22's and R44's, training heli's, including those I piloted, typically fly the light aircraft pattern altitude of 1000 AGL and initiate most auto's from that altitude. Departure radio traffic is identical to fixed wing, although departure clearances typically have heli's leaving from either the closest runway intersection to the heli op. or along the parallel taxiway at the same intersecting taxiway. At my home airport, pattern traffic, both fixed wing and heli, is typically maintained on the East side of the runway providing better visibility from the tower which is West of the runway. Arriving full stop aircraft are normally directed into the pattern on the West side of the runway. In both cases either left or right traffic as required depending on the wind.

All heli and fixed wing pattern op's typically require "report midfield", followed by heli's typically reporting/requesting "midfield, downwind, for the option", for steep, normal or auto approaches. For 180 auto's the call is "request short approach", usually requested on crosswind to downwind, to which the tower normally replies "runway XX, short approach approved, cleared for the option", traffic permitting.

[MitchStick]

Every airport has different procedures for helicopters, usually those procedures are established in conjunction with the helicopter pilots that operate at that airport because as said in the AIM 4-3-17: "helicopter pilots are intimately familiar with the effects of rotor downwhash, they are best qualified to determine if a given operation can be conducted safely."
And helicopter operations are generally instructed to avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft to minimize overall delays..

At the airports where I fly Helicopter patterns are 500' AGL both side of the runway and significantly "tighter" than the Fixed-wing traffic patterns that are at 1000' AGL both side of the runway.
There are no midfield call or request for approach call, once the helicopter is in the pattern it's pretty much on its own except the pilot has to ask tower before every take off..

[Heli Fat]

You're both entitled to your opinions rightly or wrongly, however, perhaps the pprune administrator should have stopped this audio going on here if it was going to cause so much upset with certain individuals arguing over it being on here or not....


RIP

[John R81]

Or perhaps not. Uncomfortable listening indeed, but a very sobering reminder of the importance of the responsibility on every pilot to "see and avoid"; and of the consequence of not succeeding in that task.

[MitchStick]

Maybe I should have ended my opinion..
I'm not trying to say that I'm right and the others wrong, I'm just saying that we cannot tell if someone did things right or wrong if we don't know the procedures in place at that specific airport..

And for the audio I think we are all grown up enough to make our own decisions, the audio doesn't start as soon as you open the page, you have to start it, and if you start it it means you want to listen to it. I didn't listen to it because I don't like to hear people screaming and dying, by reading this thread I had enough information without having to listen to a disturbing audio that doesn't even tell us how things really went.

[John Eacott]

Moorabbin Airport (south east of Melbourne) had a fixed wing/helicopter midair some 35 years ago which resulted in separate altitudes for circuiting FW and RW, plus helicopters must be at 700 ft within 3 nm of the field. As well as operating to different landing areas this ensures that aeroplanes are at 1,000ft with helicopters at 700ft, giving (generally) both horizontal and vertical separation of types.

Originally Posted by Jarvy

The audio clip was played on the news here in the US, the screaming was from the fixed wing passenger who survived with barely a scratch.

The video is titled:

KFDK Crash
Cirrus SR22
Warning -
Disturbing Audio

There is a background audio of a passenger crying out "My God, my God". No screaming that I can hear.

Much ado about nothing to be extolling the removal of the clip from Rotorheads.

[PBY]

Everytime I go flying small planes in the US, I am scared by the american habit to descend on downwind, abeam the runway. I always thought about it as an accident to happen. Why would anybody in the right mind start descending ahead without a clearing turn? That is the reason why descending on downwind in Canada is strictly prohibited. Descending on base is much safer, as base is an area that was visually cleared prior to descend. I am not aware of any other country in the world, where descending on downwind is allowed. Pleas correct me on that, if I am wrong.

[cockney steve]

Descending on base is much safer, as base is an area that was visually cleared prior to descend.

Forgive my naivite, but how so?

join at Circuit height on deadside.....you have a clear voew of crosswind.....from which you also have a clear view of downwind, as with the turn onto Base......on each leg,you have the same chance to check and clear,but it does not stop you missing another aircraft joining directon "your" leg, with a speed/height differential.
A bit like a car joining a major roundabout, try to establish entry and exit points, appropriate places to safely change lanes and set upfor exit.but you must know, and keep an eye on, traffic that is relevant to your intended route.
On this occasion, neither party made this observation....The Cirrus, apparently, failed to take positive action to locate traffic which he was informed about and the heli likewise should have been aware of it's presence.
act as if every other person inthe area is a fool and drive/fly defensively.

A very sad and unnecessarry loss of life.