Winch rescue of Submariner
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Winch rescue of Submariner
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=300_1408483995
19th August, the Colombian Navy helicopter conducted the rescue of a sergeant from a Peruvian Navy submarine.
http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a...e8&ec_rate=230
Mickjoebill
19th August, the Colombian Navy helicopter conducted the rescue of a sergeant from a Peruvian Navy submarine.
http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a...e8&ec_rate=230
Mickjoebill
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Although in some circumstances a hi-line (HI - heaving in, not 'high') may be appropriate, the likelihood is that on this occasion it was not necessary. It's use has to be balanced with the risk to the swinging winchman from potentially injurious protruding objects - of which there are few on a submarine - and the requirement for that hi-line to be carefully managed by knowledgeable and capable hands on what is a very, very small winching area. Yes, the winchman was swinging but not to the degree that might hurt him were he to impact the smooth sides of the vessel. Those smooth sides provide an inviting area for the winchman to take out a small swing by fending off with his boots.
What we can't see on the footage is the method of rescue. A rescue basket is visible stowed behind the co-pilot but considering the limited winching area on submarines, the chances are he was lifted in a rescue strop. Stretcher delivery or recovery, which might call for a hi-line, appears not to have been a factor. If a rescue strop was used, although a hi-line may have taken out the swing on deployment and enabled the winchman to have been delivered straight to the fin, it would have also unnecessarily prolonged the time spent in the hover while the hi-line was delivered and caused a potential snag on the miniscule and cluttered deck. From what is shown, it looks like the Colombians did as well as could have been expected in the circumstances.
What we can't see on the footage is the method of rescue. A rescue basket is visible stowed behind the co-pilot but considering the limited winching area on submarines, the chances are he was lifted in a rescue strop. Stretcher delivery or recovery, which might call for a hi-line, appears not to have been a factor. If a rescue strop was used, although a hi-line may have taken out the swing on deployment and enabled the winchman to have been delivered straight to the fin, it would have also unnecessarily prolonged the time spent in the hover while the hi-line was delivered and caused a potential snag on the miniscule and cluttered deck. From what is shown, it looks like the Colombians did as well as could have been expected in the circumstances.
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Downwind
A downwind configuration, at a much, much lower height can sometimes give the pilot a good visual reference on the sub's propellor/tailfin assembly. Depends of course on the type of sub. I'm sure Al-Bert will agree? We definitely should have landed on that iceberg 
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Did it seem the Boat could have been ballasted to ride a bit higher in the water and thus expose more of the boat for better visual reference for the Helicopter Crew?
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Bob,
By no means an expert on submarines ,but, if I recall my childhood education,there is a limit to how high a Boat can be ballasted up,for stabilty reasons , especially in rough seas.Most come up just high enough for the conning tower to be fully exposed and a little bit of the upper deck.
A winching ops off of the conning tower is preferable to that on the exposed deck for obvious reasons. In my previous life, I spent a few hours transferring supplies and people on and off Boats by Seakings and Alouette 3s and don't recall a single instance when we had such rough seas. BZ to the crew of this particular mission.
Alt 3.
By no means an expert on submarines ,but, if I recall my childhood education,there is a limit to how high a Boat can be ballasted up,for stabilty reasons , especially in rough seas.Most come up just high enough for the conning tower to be fully exposed and a little bit of the upper deck.
A winching ops off of the conning tower is preferable to that on the exposed deck for obvious reasons. In my previous life, I spent a few hours transferring supplies and people on and off Boats by Seakings and Alouette 3s and don't recall a single instance when we had such rough seas. BZ to the crew of this particular mission.
Alt 3.
A downwind configuration, at a much, much lower height can sometimes give the pilot a good visual reference
(I am by no means an expert having only done them a handfull of times, but it worked for me)ISTR that static was a major concern to the submariners, so some would use a static discharge pole to ground anything on the hoist before it contacted the boat. This prompted the following radio exchange between ourselves and one of our cousin's finest.
Sub: "We have the static discharge pole ready"
Me: "Roger, DO NOT repeat DO NOT use it on the winchman - he will not be happy"
Winchman (Mr Turnbull): "Yeah, and if you try I will get a pole of my own and we will play 'jousting' "
Note that I commented 'downwind with a following sea', which IMHO compounded the problems of a high hover and rough conditions.
There is ample deck for'd of the sail to give an excellent visual reference: at least 40 feet from the images after 2:00 in the video. Not much of a fin at the stern, though.
Running into wind and into the swell would have given a more stable deck and if combined with a lower hover would have made life a lot easier for all concerned. The 412 is a good winch platform, the pilot is close to the winch and with the window dropped down there is plenty of clear vision for a hover reference.
I'm hopefully not playing Monday morning umpire, but making professional observations which may or may not stand up against current winching experts. The driver did a good job in the conditions but, like all these events, there is often room for improvement.
There is ample deck for'd of the sail to give an excellent visual reference: at least 40 feet from the images after 2:00 in the video. Not much of a fin at the stern, though.
Running into wind and into the swell would have given a more stable deck and if combined with a lower hover would have made life a lot easier for all concerned. The 412 is a good winch platform, the pilot is close to the winch and with the window dropped down there is plenty of clear vision for a hover reference.
I'm hopefully not playing Monday morning umpire, but making professional observations which may or may not stand up against current winching experts. The driver did a good job in the conditions but, like all these events, there is often room for improvement.
Hmm, a straightforward job where being much lower would have improved the pilot's references and reduced the swing as a result of having a shorter pendulum for the winchman. The hi-line could have been deployed by hand and allowed the sub crew to pull the winchman in with virtually no swing and the pilot would have been able to hover a unit or so out of the overhead, further improving his references.
A good effort by the crew, possibly given lack of practice and familiarity, but it could have been made simpler.
A good effort by the crew, possibly given lack of practice and familiarity, but it could have been made simpler.
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Sweaty Palm Moments
Adam, your description of the static pole brought sweaty palm memories of a job to a Collins Class boat 80nm of Geraldton, Western Australia in fading light a few years back.
The job was to transfer a sailor whose wife had been admitted to hospital in rapidly declining health and return him to Perth ASAP.
The short notice of the job and the 1.7 transit from Perth to Geraldton resulted in the last light task, but this was complicated further due to the boat still being submerged during our refuel in Gearldton. However, the navy gave us a position 80nm due west and assured us they would be on the surface when we arrived. Another minor complication to this task was that our crew had only conducted a handful of winches to submarines and these were in relatively benign conditions transferring harbour pilots to foreign vessels.
As you have probably guessed, the sub was not at the position provided by the navy. Fortunately, we had a newly fitted telephone that, to our amazement, worked and we made contact with the navy in Canberra. We were assured the sub would be on the surface shortly and given a new position.
Around 10min later we spotted the sub about a mile away, with an array of none winch friendly periscopes, antennas and other protrusions extended. At our request to have theses lowered to permit winching there was an unbelievably long back-and-forth to have this request acknowledged and actioned. Subsequently, we ran-in with about 15min of winch time to bingo.
Conditions were reasonable, 3m swell no breaking sea, but we estimated no more than 20-30min of useable light. Sitting at the datum we saw three people wedged into an impossibly small space atop the sail one with static pole. The flying pilot had a reasonable reference using the forward sonar (dome?) sitting proud of the deck, although this was disappearing periodically as the bow entered the swell.
We discussed a HI Line with the winch operator (his previous life was North Sea SAR), but he felt comfortable to just conduct a low winch. We opted for the rescue Crewman to take a small HI line in his leg pocket (just in case) and got on with the task.
The Rescue Crewman was positioned just fingertips from the crew atop the sail, but they refused to take his outstretched hand. Instead they waved an earthing pole about trying to catch the wire. At this time the Rescue Crewman noticed the sail move rapidly aft as the flying pilot lost reference with the disappearing sonar dome. Another attempt was made that included the Rescue Crewman, dogging a pole, grabbing the pole and having it pulled from his hand, before politely advising the sub crew that the chance of static was minimal (S76), but then reference was lost again.
Plan B. The Rescue Crewman pulled out the HI line and as he swung close enough launched the shot-bag towards the pole operator. It bounced off his head and landed in amongst the three bodies squashed into the sail. With advice to the crew that, Its earthed now! The Rescue Crewman was finally pulled in.
With one foot either side of the middle sailor and arse hanging over the sea resting on the lip of the sail, the Rescue Crewman presented the open strop to who he though was the person they had come to recover. He received a shake of the head, followed by two more as the wire nudging under his arm suggested he not delay.
He politely asked where the gentleman requiring transfer was to be found and was directed between the feet of those assembled to a rating standing at ease a deck below. Not quite as polite as before, the Rescue Crewman suggested with some urgency that they sort their sh@t out!
After a hurried rearrangement of crew location that resembled a unique game of twister, this poor bloke had a strop thrown over his head and a moment later he was launched twenty feet above the sub.
We returned him to a helipad 10min by taxi to the hospital (no hospital pads available in Perth at that time) and gave him some cash for the fare, wishing him good luck. He had only been told about his wife 5min before our arrival and had nothing but the clothes he was wearing.
On arrival back at base the navy were there with a staff car to transport him to hospital, but were happy that we had shaved around an hour of this part of his journey. He got to spend some time with his wife, but sadly she succumbed to the medical condition.
We all learnt one or two lessons as a result of that job.
The job was to transfer a sailor whose wife had been admitted to hospital in rapidly declining health and return him to Perth ASAP.
The short notice of the job and the 1.7 transit from Perth to Geraldton resulted in the last light task, but this was complicated further due to the boat still being submerged during our refuel in Gearldton. However, the navy gave us a position 80nm due west and assured us they would be on the surface when we arrived. Another minor complication to this task was that our crew had only conducted a handful of winches to submarines and these were in relatively benign conditions transferring harbour pilots to foreign vessels.
As you have probably guessed, the sub was not at the position provided by the navy. Fortunately, we had a newly fitted telephone that, to our amazement, worked and we made contact with the navy in Canberra. We were assured the sub would be on the surface shortly and given a new position.
Around 10min later we spotted the sub about a mile away, with an array of none winch friendly periscopes, antennas and other protrusions extended. At our request to have theses lowered to permit winching there was an unbelievably long back-and-forth to have this request acknowledged and actioned. Subsequently, we ran-in with about 15min of winch time to bingo.
Conditions were reasonable, 3m swell no breaking sea, but we estimated no more than 20-30min of useable light. Sitting at the datum we saw three people wedged into an impossibly small space atop the sail one with static pole. The flying pilot had a reasonable reference using the forward sonar (dome?) sitting proud of the deck, although this was disappearing periodically as the bow entered the swell.
We discussed a HI Line with the winch operator (his previous life was North Sea SAR), but he felt comfortable to just conduct a low winch. We opted for the rescue Crewman to take a small HI line in his leg pocket (just in case) and got on with the task.
The Rescue Crewman was positioned just fingertips from the crew atop the sail, but they refused to take his outstretched hand. Instead they waved an earthing pole about trying to catch the wire. At this time the Rescue Crewman noticed the sail move rapidly aft as the flying pilot lost reference with the disappearing sonar dome. Another attempt was made that included the Rescue Crewman, dogging a pole, grabbing the pole and having it pulled from his hand, before politely advising the sub crew that the chance of static was minimal (S76), but then reference was lost again.
Plan B. The Rescue Crewman pulled out the HI line and as he swung close enough launched the shot-bag towards the pole operator. It bounced off his head and landed in amongst the three bodies squashed into the sail. With advice to the crew that, Its earthed now! The Rescue Crewman was finally pulled in.
With one foot either side of the middle sailor and arse hanging over the sea resting on the lip of the sail, the Rescue Crewman presented the open strop to who he though was the person they had come to recover. He received a shake of the head, followed by two more as the wire nudging under his arm suggested he not delay.
He politely asked where the gentleman requiring transfer was to be found and was directed between the feet of those assembled to a rating standing at ease a deck below. Not quite as polite as before, the Rescue Crewman suggested with some urgency that they sort their sh@t out!
After a hurried rearrangement of crew location that resembled a unique game of twister, this poor bloke had a strop thrown over his head and a moment later he was launched twenty feet above the sub.
We returned him to a helipad 10min by taxi to the hospital (no hospital pads available in Perth at that time) and gave him some cash for the fare, wishing him good luck. He had only been told about his wife 5min before our arrival and had nothing but the clothes he was wearing.
On arrival back at base the navy were there with a staff car to transport him to hospital, but were happy that we had shaved around an hour of this part of his journey. He got to spend some time with his wife, but sadly she succumbed to the medical condition.
We all learnt one or two lessons as a result of that job.
