Seeking guidance (especially international students with families)
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Seeking guidance (especially international students with families)
Okay, I guess I have to ask some professional opinions and tips to sort out my situation a bit. Any advice or especially personal experiences from similar situations are more than welcome. Don't hesitate to PM if you don't want to reply to the forum.
I'll try to keep this short...
The idea of being a helicopter pilot keeps haunting me year after year... Every time I have suppressed my feelings and couple of years ago (kind of) accepted that I'll never be one because it may be too hard for my family (wife + 4yrs and 3 yrs old kids) for various reasons. Couple of months ago my wife said that it would be nice to live abroad for a while before kids go to school. A couple of steps later I find myself looking for information what it would be like working as helicopter in North Sea or somewhere close to Finland. Finnish helicopter industry is so small that I'm not really counting much in it. Why North Sea? 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for one reason. Other parts of Europe are fine as well as long as there is a chance that I can be home as well with my family (suitable rotation) and I'm not located too long flight away (with Finnair or whatever).
I served my compulsory military service as a helicopter assistant mechanic (which doesn't really mean much in reality) in 2000 - got promoted to sergeant before my service ended. Before I met my wife I was in NZ and doing CPL(H). I completed my PPL(H) licence and studied CPL(H) + IR -theories (IR just for fun). CPL(H) theories were around 94/100 on average. That was 2006. Since my visit NZ I haven't seriously thought about becoming a pilot because it didn't fit in our lives. And now my wife unleashed "hell" again and gives a sort of green light.
It was relatively easy to sell all my stuff in 2006 and travel to other side of the world. But now... There is a lot more stuff in the equation. If it would be just me, the choice would be even easier that 2006. I'm 33 now, worked ~8 years in IT. However, IT has never really been my thing. I thrive from physical challenges that require good situational awareness, that much I know from my previous part time jobs and hobbies. I know my weaknesses as pilot which I didn't know in 2006 and I know how to overcome them.
It's not only my life that I'm or we are about to mess. Currently it's pretty secured in every way... Maybe a bit too secured? My kids could go to school in States for example while I would build my hours as an FI. My wife... well, she could do something which isn't certain yet. It would take maybe 2-3 years to get to around 1000hrs? I'm pretty much sorted with the financial part as well. I won't have much left after training and hour building, but it's possible financially. Most likely it would be the mother of all adventures for our family, but after all long "holidays" when you come back home you get hit by a huge truck called cultural shock. In this story the cultural shock would also include what to do next.
What to do next... I'm probably counting quite a lot on getting into North Sea as a 1000hr pilot. I know that scandivian language is required in Norway. Checked - my swedish will fine enough with some practice. There is also Holland, UK and Denmark. I have emailed couple of times companis in Holland and Danmark about offshore, but haven't received a reply. Next week I'll call them... 1000hrs - checked (Denmark - 500hrs). Passion and motivation to network with all and everyone in the business - checked. Flying skills - if I get this far it should be there. Backup plan(s) to secure financy if not hired immediately - checked. However, my requirement to working days so I can be home with my family will most likely make quite a few job opportunities from the few to be impossible... And one thing I really don't want to do is to break our family. There is no job in world that is so important to me. I can work in IT or something, but most likely my hearth will never feel as good as it most likely would feel as a pilot's hearth. Sounds kind of silly, but it's hard to say without really experiencing it. And yes, there will always be factors in every job that you don't like etc.
I appreciate if you have any advice how I could improve my chances to get into North Sea. It could be anything from initial training locations/schools to contact informations or anything.
Or you can always say forget it and live your secured life and get hobbies to make your life more exciting.
Fly safe,
Antti
I'll try to keep this short...
The idea of being a helicopter pilot keeps haunting me year after year... Every time I have suppressed my feelings and couple of years ago (kind of) accepted that I'll never be one because it may be too hard for my family (wife + 4yrs and 3 yrs old kids) for various reasons. Couple of months ago my wife said that it would be nice to live abroad for a while before kids go to school. A couple of steps later I find myself looking for information what it would be like working as helicopter in North Sea or somewhere close to Finland. Finnish helicopter industry is so small that I'm not really counting much in it. Why North Sea? 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for one reason. Other parts of Europe are fine as well as long as there is a chance that I can be home as well with my family (suitable rotation) and I'm not located too long flight away (with Finnair or whatever).
I served my compulsory military service as a helicopter assistant mechanic (which doesn't really mean much in reality) in 2000 - got promoted to sergeant before my service ended. Before I met my wife I was in NZ and doing CPL(H). I completed my PPL(H) licence and studied CPL(H) + IR -theories (IR just for fun). CPL(H) theories were around 94/100 on average. That was 2006. Since my visit NZ I haven't seriously thought about becoming a pilot because it didn't fit in our lives. And now my wife unleashed "hell" again and gives a sort of green light.
It was relatively easy to sell all my stuff in 2006 and travel to other side of the world. But now... There is a lot more stuff in the equation. If it would be just me, the choice would be even easier that 2006. I'm 33 now, worked ~8 years in IT. However, IT has never really been my thing. I thrive from physical challenges that require good situational awareness, that much I know from my previous part time jobs and hobbies. I know my weaknesses as pilot which I didn't know in 2006 and I know how to overcome them.It's not only my life that I'm or we are about to mess. Currently it's pretty secured in every way... Maybe a bit too secured? My kids could go to school in States for example while I would build my hours as an FI. My wife... well, she could do something which isn't certain yet. It would take maybe 2-3 years to get to around 1000hrs? I'm pretty much sorted with the financial part as well. I won't have much left after training and hour building, but it's possible financially. Most likely it would be the mother of all adventures for our family, but after all long "holidays" when you come back home you get hit by a huge truck called cultural shock. In this story the cultural shock would also include what to do next.
What to do next... I'm probably counting quite a lot on getting into North Sea as a 1000hr pilot. I know that scandivian language is required in Norway. Checked - my swedish will fine enough with some practice. There is also Holland, UK and Denmark. I have emailed couple of times companis in Holland and Danmark about offshore, but haven't received a reply. Next week I'll call them... 1000hrs - checked (Denmark - 500hrs). Passion and motivation to network with all and everyone in the business - checked. Flying skills - if I get this far it should be there. Backup plan(s) to secure financy if not hired immediately - checked. However, my requirement to working days so I can be home with my family will most likely make quite a few job opportunities from the few to be impossible... And one thing I really don't want to do is to break our family. There is no job in world that is so important to me. I can work in IT or something, but most likely my hearth will never feel as good as it most likely would feel as a pilot's hearth. Sounds kind of silly, but it's hard to say without really experiencing it. And yes, there will always be factors in every job that you don't like etc.
I appreciate if you have any advice how I could improve my chances to get into North Sea. It could be anything from initial training locations/schools to contact informations or anything.
Or you can always say forget it and live your secured life and get hobbies to make your life more exciting.
Fly safe,
Antti
Last edited by Antti; 10th Aug 2014 at 14:10.
My kids could go to school in States for example while I would build my hours as an FI.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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if I were you and you want to make it happen, get the ATPL theory exams done/out of way, as it'd take while and get it done while you're in your day job. European stuff, obviously. NZ licenses are good for starting the distance course. ONLY THEN do the flying bits with sufficient funds at hand - frequency and intensity would help considering your training took long time ago if you haven't flown since.
Word of warning. The 'low timer' jobs in Europe are mostly instructing or co-piloting offshore (with going straight to utility in Scandinavia doable, but NOT fitting your family life for sure and it'd be ground crewing journey first, too) and the euro IR is pretty darn expensive to self-fund. I'm not promoting it, it's akin to airliner self funded type rating without company paying for it, but that's the sad state of affairs we live in.
Your US visa options other than M1 for training or college/Uni F1 visas (not the 2yr 'ex-J1') are more limited since you've got CPL. If you want family break, go for the (pricey) Bristow modular or shorter CPL etc and Euro FI rating there or someplace in Europe. Again, have the theory all passed before sorting visas/tickets. I've got to know one Scandinavian pilot who did his training ages ago in Australia, then dormant for 7 or so years, like yourself, but he's only just about getting there with offshore job in Europe and he spent plenty cash in US and Sweden on various training/ratings.
In helicopter world, it's not as simple as rocking up with FI certificate/rating at any school and getting job, as in fixed wing world. It's lower cost, lower 'risk' but also low income job to start off, so people better off simply burn tons of cash, seeing the ads asking for ME IR(H) flying to rigs. Presuming you've got 150hrs+ helicopter, the specific types of hours, training, paperwork, that'd be some 15-30k EUR and if doing the extra hours and FI course, double that, or if 'just' MEIR(H), then some 40-55kEUR if you don't have valid ICAO IR(H) or EASA IR(A) for some credit.
As you're not new to the game, consider job market, costs, time 'to get there' etc. Yes, it may not be very family friendly, whichever way initially. Helicopter servicing history, even if not substantial, would be beneficial in some areas of helicopter ops, far from elsewhere utility, for example.
Work rights not an issue in EEA/EU, other stuff covered a lot if you use the sticky or search for things. Just my little chipping in about things you touched on.
Word of warning. The 'low timer' jobs in Europe are mostly instructing or co-piloting offshore (with going straight to utility in Scandinavia doable, but NOT fitting your family life for sure and it'd be ground crewing journey first, too) and the euro IR is pretty darn expensive to self-fund. I'm not promoting it, it's akin to airliner self funded type rating without company paying for it, but that's the sad state of affairs we live in.
Your US visa options other than M1 for training or college/Uni F1 visas (not the 2yr 'ex-J1') are more limited since you've got CPL. If you want family break, go for the (pricey) Bristow modular or shorter CPL etc and Euro FI rating there or someplace in Europe. Again, have the theory all passed before sorting visas/tickets. I've got to know one Scandinavian pilot who did his training ages ago in Australia, then dormant for 7 or so years, like yourself, but he's only just about getting there with offshore job in Europe and he spent plenty cash in US and Sweden on various training/ratings.
In helicopter world, it's not as simple as rocking up with FI certificate/rating at any school and getting job, as in fixed wing world. It's lower cost, lower 'risk' but also low income job to start off, so people better off simply burn tons of cash, seeing the ads asking for ME IR(H) flying to rigs. Presuming you've got 150hrs+ helicopter, the specific types of hours, training, paperwork, that'd be some 15-30k EUR and if doing the extra hours and FI course, double that, or if 'just' MEIR(H), then some 40-55kEUR if you don't have valid ICAO IR(H) or EASA IR(A) for some credit.
As you're not new to the game, consider job market, costs, time 'to get there' etc. Yes, it may not be very family friendly, whichever way initially. Helicopter servicing history, even if not substantial, would be beneficial in some areas of helicopter ops, far from elsewhere utility, for example.
Work rights not an issue in EEA/EU, other stuff covered a lot if you use the sticky or search for things. Just my little chipping in about things you touched on.
Unless you have 40 odd thousand euro for a ME IR, I personally wouldn't put your family and kids through , the pain and hassle of chasing a dream that possibly does not exist.
If you were single , I would say go for it.
If you were single , I would say go for it.
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Cheers for the replies (and PMs)!
I corrected a bit my writing since it was a bit unclear. I don't have CPL. I just completed the theories.
For ATPL theories in Bristol Groundschool I need ICAO PPL, which I have so that's fine. Don't have CPL so I could go for a CPL flight training. So I guess I halted my training at a convenient moment.
Unfortunately not schools take in people with previous experience and some may not be able to give a visa I'm looking for or have other "rules". Oh well, I'll keep doing my research.
I corrected a bit my writing since it was a bit unclear. I don't have CPL. I just completed the theories.
For ATPL theories in Bristol Groundschool I need ICAO PPL, which I have so that's fine. Don't have CPL so I could go for a CPL flight training. So I guess I halted my training at a convenient moment.
Unfortunately not schools take in people with previous experience and some may not be able to give a visa I'm looking for or have other "rules". Oh well, I'll keep doing my research.
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well, add extra funds to estimated budget then.
BGS seems most popular amongst fixed wing pilots in UK, not the only one to use. CATS is cheaper, CAPT more heli focused from the onset, although they do (A) theory as well nowadays. Then you have these having arrangements with 'satellite bases' - other schools around Europe and further afield for the revision classes, though likely to come at certain premium - it could be more convenient overall, than going to UK for revision classes.
Anything you decide to do, whether doing all in one go in US or 'modular', the more cost-effective way towards CPL and then whacking lots of cash on the MEIR(H) course, with or without non-EASA IR (still expensive and have to work on ADF/NDB). Unless the move to US for year or two is desired, you have options. Just budget for everything and more (contingency) and don't underestimate loss of income/living costs. In the past, the partner/spouse of J1 holder had work rights in the US, not the same rules apply now with the aviation F1 visa, so do check the fine details. Going to US to spend heaps of cash and then claiming with USCIS 'material hardship' for spouse to work while you're on F1 spending left right and middle, probably won't cut it. Just checked, even that's not feasible for F2 status after quick search.
Bristow isn't the only 'ex-J1 F1' flight training provider in the US, although for zero to hero guys from Europe more convenient option. It's good to have supportive spouse and decent career/job to fall back on after training/between jobs, though. Things are rosy and happy until they're not. People and relationships may change under strain. Wanna risk it? Would you call it off after spending loads, to save family life? It's more than just deciding where/when/how much if cashed up.
BGS seems most popular amongst fixed wing pilots in UK, not the only one to use. CATS is cheaper, CAPT more heli focused from the onset, although they do (A) theory as well nowadays. Then you have these having arrangements with 'satellite bases' - other schools around Europe and further afield for the revision classes, though likely to come at certain premium - it could be more convenient overall, than going to UK for revision classes.
Anything you decide to do, whether doing all in one go in US or 'modular', the more cost-effective way towards CPL and then whacking lots of cash on the MEIR(H) course, with or without non-EASA IR (still expensive and have to work on ADF/NDB). Unless the move to US for year or two is desired, you have options. Just budget for everything and more (contingency) and don't underestimate loss of income/living costs. In the past, the partner/spouse of J1 holder had work rights in the US, not the same rules apply now with the aviation F1 visa, so do check the fine details. Going to US to spend heaps of cash and then claiming with USCIS 'material hardship' for spouse to work while you're on F1 spending left right and middle, probably won't cut it. Just checked, even that's not feasible for F2 status after quick search.
Bristow isn't the only 'ex-J1 F1' flight training provider in the US, although for zero to hero guys from Europe more convenient option. It's good to have supportive spouse and decent career/job to fall back on after training/between jobs, though. Things are rosy and happy until they're not. People and relationships may change under strain. Wanna risk it? Would you call it off after spending loads, to save family life? It's more than just deciding where/when/how much if cashed up.
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Thanks martin!
I do keep 10-20% extra in my budget calculations so I have already budgetted a buffer. Although, budget may still go over it... And I do have an acceptable backup career to fall back if required.
It's fairly easy to figure out how/when/etc to do the training etc compared to how to sort out the family side. There is more ...unpredictable variables... in it. The final deciding factors will probably be found from there.
There is some info in the original post that I probably should have left out and work it out myself, but I do like stories. Anyway, I have already gained valuable information from you guys/girls. This is still an interesting subject which to talk about.
I do keep 10-20% extra in my budget calculations so I have already budgetted a buffer. Although, budget may still go over it... And I do have an acceptable backup career to fall back if required.
It's fairly easy to figure out how/when/etc to do the training etc compared to how to sort out the family side. There is more ...unpredictable variables... in it. The final deciding factors will probably be found from there.
There is some info in the original post that I probably should have left out and work it out myself, but I do like stories.
Anyway, I have already gained valuable information from you guys/girls. This is still an interesting subject which to talk about.
