Prince William for Air Ambulance?

[MightyGem]

This thread has been 'revived' from almost a years inactivity in the whole because of the use of the helilift,

Err..no. It was revived by John Eacott for Prince William starting his new job. It was you that started the helilift discussion, almost a week later.

[SilsoeSid]

MightyGem

This thread has been 'revived' from almost a years inactivity in the whole because of the use of the helilift,

Err..no. It was revived by John Eacott for Prince William starting his new job. It was you that started the helilift discussion, almost a week later.

It was revived as you say by John, but there were no posts until my helilift post a week later. I didn't think one post would constitute a revival.

Art, one doesn't drive the helilift, one operates it, and I haven't been allowed boot laces for a while now

[SilsoeSid]

Prince William security alert over app that lets anyone track his ambulance helicopter

"Security alert over app that lets anyone track pilot Prince's air ambulance helicopter"

[EESDL]

Funny old thing - remember sometime ago when Sky covered the closure of South of England due a power outage/computer glitch - they used the same app and the RF was clearly depicted for all to see - coming into shot from Aylesbury?
Wonder why DM thinks it is a concern now?
It has been a concern ever since RF flights have to share their flight details.
Personally, I think such a 'significant' Royal flying for an Air Ambulance is self-indulgent.

[G0ULI]

The whole point of transponders is to allow air traffic controllers and automated anti collision systems to prevent two aircraft occupying the same area of sky at the same time. The fact that ADSB transmissions can be picked up and decoded using a £5 TV dongle and a PC running appropriate software, or a mobile phone app, is irrelevant as far as air safety is concerned.

If a determined effort is made to target high profile individuals, there is no need for high tech methods. Simply observing a place they are known to be attending is sufficient. Computer assisted tracking doesn't necessarily increase the security risks associated with holding a high profile public office.

Switching off or spoofing an aircraft transponder will increase the aviation safety risks far more than it decreases the chances of a personal attack on an individual flying in that aircraft.

[[email protected]]

Heard a funny thing recently - someone in an Air Ambulance recruiting role said that SAR hours couldn't be counted as HEMS hours..........what on earth do they think SAR aircraft spend half their lives doing???? The other half is proper tricky stuff, not just landing in fields and at hospitals

[Exascot]

This only tracks the aircraft it doesn't track HRH. It could be a different crew.

Does he get purple airspace?

[Rotate too late]

Hmmmmm, wonder if it's the same guy that is selective about what types can be counted for captaincy???

[jayteeto]

Crab, what do you mean by HEMS hours?? Who has a requirement??

[darkroomsource]

If one is able to get an anti-aircraft missile on the scene of an accident in time to intercept HRH (and know that he's the pilot at the time, etc. etc.), then one can probably get that missile in position to shoot him while he's at home, or at the palace, or doing any kind of charity work.
Why all the fuss?

[SilsoeSid]

Exascot;
This only tracks the aircraft it doesn't track HRH. It could be a different crew.

If you look through the news reports that are linked to in this thread, they will tell you HRH's start date and that he is on a four on, four off roster. I'm no Archbishop but ....

I love it when people comment on threads without giving fellow posters the basic courtesy of reading the content of their posts

[TeeS]

Hi Crab

Heard a funny thing recently - someone in an Air Ambulance recruiting role said that SAR hours couldn't be counted as HEMS hours..........what on earth do they think SAR aircraft spend half their lives doing????

Unfortunately, the definition of HEMS is written into European Law now and that means, like it or not, you can't count UK military SAR hours as HEMS because, well HEMS is HEMS and SAR is SAR and actually they are different - I suspect the opportunities for a SAR pilot to land in an un-surveyed 2D landing site in a city centre industrial complex are reasonably rare - Generally, ex SAR pilots make quite good HEMS pilots, the ones we sometimes struggle with are those that won't learn because they already know it all but we get those from all walks of life.

We can however, use SAR hours to count towards the requirement for "500 hours’ operating experience in helicopters, gained in an operational environment similar to the intended operation"

Cheers

TeeS

[[email protected]]

Tees - I take your point but HEMS hours won't specify how many 2D unsurveyed LSs that pilot (who may well have operated in rural areas) will have completed will it?

It is a nonsense since so much of HEMS is covered in everyday SAROps - the only real difference is not having to comply with PC1 profiles.

Logicfreezone - nope

[cyclic]

is there anything an ex-RAF SAR pilot can't do? Not seen it yet

[Thomas coupling]

Having done both (SAR and HEMS) they are, on the whole quite different.
Crab hasn't done any HEMS, I might add so it could be difficult for him to compare
I can understand how SAR hours don't count, the mentality and approach is different.
'Most' SAR is long haul with some trickie stuff at the end - even then its using big a/c and fairly open spaces. HEMS (don't confuse hems with air ambulance) is little helo's and tight spaces - very tight spaces.
The regs allow for this within reason but nonetheless, when hems is played out, the actions of the pilot are much more tightly honed when it comes to judging landing zones and immovable objects which might spoil your day.

It is subjective - of course it is but the 5 "S's" come into play continuously when it comes to HEMS.......not so much with SAR.
Therefore, QED the challenges (although not as often as enormous they may be with some SAR sorties) are thick and fast - with very little (often none) time to plan fully.
HEMS pilots are little and often. SAR are big and rarely.

[snaggletooth]

It is subjective - of course it is but the 5 "S's" come into play continuously when it comes to HEMS.......not so much with SAR.

I must take issue with that statement.

SAR regularly necessitates landing in confined areas, hill sides, clearings, rough fields, hospital HLSs, etc., the variety is enormous. The 5 'S's are our bread and butter old chap and drummed into us, SH or SAR, from day one. They are a core skill we use day in day out.

[misterbonkers]

7 Ss! Don't forget Sun and Shadow - they can ruin your day too ;o)

Silsoe - start dates don't always mean you're straight into the 4 on 4 off. But then you don't need the news to help out - you could just sit near the gate and watch what day he arrives...

At the end of the day I think HRH just needs to be allowed to get on with things and enjoy himself at work like the rest of us :o) Afterall, 10-12hrs of drinking tea, ebaying, reading accident reports, watching jezza/war movies and bitching about the world is good life experience! (Oops, I forgot to mention about occasionally going flying)* (who said SAR was different?!?)

*note this is no reflection on my current employed status

[[email protected]]

Crab hasn't done any HEMS

true but I have spent 30 plus years operating in and out of confined area of all shapes, sizes and locations - some considerably less accommodating than 2D and for several years without the aid of rearcrew.

It's not rocket science nor particularly difficult so why make a big deal of specialist hours. All in small aircraft with compact rotor discs and often Fenestrons or NOTAR.

[SilsoeSid]

If one is able to get an anti-aircraft missile on the scene of an accident in time to intercept HRH (and know that he's the pilot at the time, etc. etc.), then one can probably get that missile in position to shoot him while he's at home, or at the palace, or doing any kind of charity work.
Why all the fuss?

'These people want sensationalism, so what could possibly be more repugnant to the British people than a suicide bomber at a hospital helipad taking out the second in line to the throne, the second pilot, the doctor, the paramedics, the patient, the hospital staff and the fire crew!

As mister bonkers says, 'all you have to do is sit at the gate and watch for who is on crew' .... Meanwhile the rest of the paradise seekers are hanging around the regions hospitals ready to do the deed.

But as someone said earlier, all this has been taken into account.

[TeeS]

Hi Crab

You have to go back into slightly ancient history to understand where the HEMS experience requirement comes from. Under JAR, there was a minimum of 1000 hours P1 set for command of a HEMS helicopter; however, there were some operators conducting multi-pilot HEMS and someone thought to ask how a HEMS co-pilot could ever gain 1000 hours of P1 in that role. The fairly sensible decision was made that a co-pilot with 1000 hours of HEMS experience will have a good chance of passing a HEMS command course. It is the 500 hours operating a helicopter in a similar role that is pertinent to the SAR pilot, the HEMS co-pilot experience is for HEMS co-pilots.

Also:

It is a nonsense since so much of HEMS is covered in everyday SAROps - the only real difference is not having to comply with PC1 profiles.

is a bit of a red herring. Not only is there no requirement to operate in PC1 at a HEMS operating site, it is impossible to do so unless your HEMS operating site happens to be a pre-surveyed landing site, a surveyed heliport or an airfield. PC1, by definition, requires a known obstacle environment so an un-surveyed HEMS landing site can only ever be PC2 at best.

Cheers

TeeS