AW139 G-LBAL helicopter crash in Gillingham, Norfolk
Hi - As you suggest in a case like this one would hope that between the crew and the manufacturer there might have been a plan to operate this machine in the best possible way, which includes what the expectation was of the sorties being flown.
There are very many wealth people and some even own aircraft of far greater value than an AW139, I suggest that nobody flying around in a private BBJ is attempting to get into (and I’m being silly to make the point) Fenland for example! So it does seem that in some cases this type of person can be controlled.
I don’t know what the background is with this owner and the way he operates his aircraft, it does seem that there is a story but as you can see from this thread discussion has been closed down. I don’t know why and when I asked Senior Pilot he said he didn’t know either.
There is this defensive attitude, from many, that attaches itself to these types of event typically behind a veil of concern for family reading comments or out of a desire to respect a fellow aviator and the dead. That is seen as noble, and in a way it is, but it is also sensible to be able to discuss potential issues.
What’s the solution? Well waiting for an AAIB report will clarify if the issues are real or if I am barking up a wrong tree. However if not isn’t it amazing how people just don’t get involved. Potentially you’ve had a 4 ton machine landing in someone’s garden, transporting a member of parliament and key man in a large corporate body having already gone through a sales process with a major helicopter manufacturer and crewed by two commercial pilots if the conversation wasn’t had then just wow.
Edited to add: His company Norbrook has on its board a Sir Roy McNulty who is also on the Chairman of Gatwick airport so aviation is very much around these people... And S76... why not speak out about the "wealthy chairman"?? just like how someone was reluctant weeks ago to talk about David Richards accident in his 109...
There are very many wealth people and some even own aircraft of far greater value than an AW139, I suggest that nobody flying around in a private BBJ is attempting to get into (and I’m being silly to make the point) Fenland for example! So it does seem that in some cases this type of person can be controlled.
I don’t know what the background is with this owner and the way he operates his aircraft, it does seem that there is a story but as you can see from this thread discussion has been closed down. I don’t know why and when I asked Senior Pilot he said he didn’t know either.
There is this defensive attitude, from many, that attaches itself to these types of event typically behind a veil of concern for family reading comments or out of a desire to respect a fellow aviator and the dead. That is seen as noble, and in a way it is, but it is also sensible to be able to discuss potential issues.
What’s the solution? Well waiting for an AAIB report will clarify if the issues are real or if I am barking up a wrong tree. However if not isn’t it amazing how people just don’t get involved. Potentially you’ve had a 4 ton machine landing in someone’s garden, transporting a member of parliament and key man in a large corporate body having already gone through a sales process with a major helicopter manufacturer and crewed by two commercial pilots if the conversation wasn’t had then just wow.
Edited to add: His company Norbrook has on its board a Sir Roy McNulty who is also on the Chairman of Gatwick airport so aviation is very much around these people... And S76... why not speak out about the "wealthy chairman"?? just like how someone was reluctant weeks ago to talk about David Richards accident in his 109...
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There are very many wealth people and some even own aircraft of far greater value than an AW139, I suggest that nobody flying around in a private BBJ is attempting to get into (and I’m being silly to make the point) Fenland for example! So it does seem that in some cases this type of person can be controlled.
After the ETAP and Sumburgh accidents, the helicopter OEMs have realised their exposure and are scrambling to catch up with the fixed wing manufacturers. It's one of the main synergies Guillaume Faury (the new Airbus Helicopters CEO)is hoping to gain from the closer alignment with the Airbus parent.
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EASA EAD 2014-0073-E released.. Lower half scissor spherical bearing inspection.
EASA Airworthiness Directives Publishing Tool
EASA Airworthiness Directives Publishing Tool
Avoid imitations
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EASA EAD 2014-0073-E released.. Lower half scissor spherical bearing inspection.
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The real PIC.
Can I throw a few words in from a different angle.
As many will know, and apart from doing the standard commercial tasks .... I've been involved in helicopter sales and marketing since the early 1970s. From time to time, one meets up with a potential buyer who unhappily possesses many of the personal traits listed above, and its a tough nut to crack I can tell you. Just like the company pilot who wants to keep his job, the sales guy needs to make sales and I've had occasions when I've made a sale and handed the guy over to the training school only to see him (always male!) blast off home in poor weather. Post event, I've even called the guy in question to offer some sage words ... and sadly on too many occasions, I'd have got a better response from my cat!
I obviously can't list them, but over the years I've seen perhaps half a dozen avoidable fatalities where the base cause has been inadequate weather and the "I've made a few million quid following my own advice so I don't need your advice now," mantra! That situation become horribly all too apparent when in the 1970s a talented F1 driver attempted an impossible landing at a rural airfield that lacked suitable IFR facilities.
Where do our industry's professional responsibilities end?
That's the problem ... anyone out there have the cure?
Safe flying to all pps. Dennis Kenyon.
As many will know, and apart from doing the standard commercial tasks .... I've been involved in helicopter sales and marketing since the early 1970s. From time to time, one meets up with a potential buyer who unhappily possesses many of the personal traits listed above, and its a tough nut to crack I can tell you. Just like the company pilot who wants to keep his job, the sales guy needs to make sales and I've had occasions when I've made a sale and handed the guy over to the training school only to see him (always male!) blast off home in poor weather. Post event, I've even called the guy in question to offer some sage words ... and sadly on too many occasions, I'd have got a better response from my cat!
I obviously can't list them, but over the years I've seen perhaps half a dozen avoidable fatalities where the base cause has been inadequate weather and the "I've made a few million quid following my own advice so I don't need your advice now," mantra! That situation become horribly all too apparent when in the 1970s a talented F1 driver attempted an impossible landing at a rural airfield that lacked suitable IFR facilities.
Where do our industry's professional responsibilities end?
That's the problem ... anyone out there have the cure?
Safe flying to all pps. Dennis Kenyon.
rapman, Haven't seen G-LBAL's wreckage to see if the scissor link had an issue or not, but the release of the BT is coincidental and is due to issues with the new style Scissor Lever that is in use on some other AW139's.
Given the age of this machine, I doubt very much that it had the style of Scissor Lever that is affected by this BT/AD
Given the age of this machine, I doubt very much that it had the style of Scissor Lever that is affected by this BT/AD
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Dennis, sage words indeed! like you I suspect that whatever guidance/rulemaking exists we will continue to read about such accidents as this.It is difficult to see how the OEM can be made responsible for how an owner operates his a/c, as long as he complies with all the regulations and rules at the point of delivery, other than sage advice the OEM is duty bound to deliver the equipment. Sadly.
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Hang on a minute this wealthy stand no none sense guy was sat in the back. As we all know the responsibility with whether we fly or not rests with the captain and as far as I am concerned this although very tragic accident rests with the pilots not the passengers having said that if it was a weather related accident which it all points to then don't blame the boss man
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Are you for real??? Any pilot should say NO if conditions are bad, but a boss who fires anyone who says no, cannot be classed as innocent. Sat in the back or not.
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Bollocks I'm not killing myself for anyone. I'm not a commercial pilot and I have no intention of flying commercially just not interested in being a taxi driver A to B for me is just boring but I do have 20 years instruction on tin pot helicopters but every time a machine goes down makes me very sad but it is down to the captain if it's pilot error. Let's hope our industry safety record starts to improve because to the average man in the street we are looking pretty bad at the moment
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Cyclic Flare,
Thank you for your disparaging posts.You claim to be part of the industry but do not hesitate to call your fellow helicopter pilots "taxi drivers". Classy.
And,by the way, pick up a little booklet on English grammar. Turn to the chapter marked "punctuation". Try and get a little bit of education and then post over here. If you do that and also show a little respect for the living and the dead in "our" industry,maybe we will all take you a little seriously.
Alt3.
Thank you for your disparaging posts.You claim to be part of the industry but do not hesitate to call your fellow helicopter pilots "taxi drivers". Classy.
And,by the way, pick up a little booklet on English grammar. Turn to the chapter marked "punctuation". Try and get a little bit of education and then post over here. If you do that and also show a little respect for the living and the dead in "our" industry,maybe we will all take you a little seriously.
Alt3.
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'And,by the way, pick up a little booklet on English grammar.'
It could be worse, he could have started a sentence with a conjunction.
It's pretty clear that something needs to be tightened up by the CAA or EASA here. If what is reported above is true - 'a boss who fires anyone who says no' - then the potential for the erosion of safety margins is massive and beyond what is acceptable in 21st century aviation. If there's no requirement for private or corporate owners to have a Safety Management System that can be used to back up the Captain in his decision making then that is something that needs to change. Even if it's a generic SMS produced by the CAA that all private owners have to subscribe to. It is beyond comprehension that an owner can still use the 'fly me or else' line. This has to change. It's not just airborne people that are at risk. As has been seen in recent months, innocent members of the public are proving to be equally vulnerable to helicopters falling out of the sky and for many, that's beyond the pale. CAA/EASA - do something! This cannot continue.
It could be worse, he could have started a sentence with a conjunction.
It's pretty clear that something needs to be tightened up by the CAA or EASA here. If what is reported above is true - 'a boss who fires anyone who says no' - then the potential for the erosion of safety margins is massive and beyond what is acceptable in 21st century aviation. If there's no requirement for private or corporate owners to have a Safety Management System that can be used to back up the Captain in his decision making then that is something that needs to change. Even if it's a generic SMS produced by the CAA that all private owners have to subscribe to. It is beyond comprehension that an owner can still use the 'fly me or else' line. This has to change. It's not just airborne people that are at risk. As has been seen in recent months, innocent members of the public are proving to be equally vulnerable to helicopters falling out of the sky and for many, that's beyond the pale. CAA/EASA - do something! This cannot continue.