Police helicopter crashes onto Glasgow pub
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Eurocopter Statement reported on Reuters and also BBC R4 News
People .... I am brand new here but for your information this is a new Reuters report timed 23.54 GMT Monday 16 Dec but it was also on BBC Radio 4 midnight news tonight...
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/12/16/uk-britain-helicopters-idUKBRE9BF1HW20131216
At present I am unable to find the link to the Eurocopter statement directly but I am sure most of you people will do so in short order. However to quote directly from the Reuters link above:
----------------
Quote
(Reuters) - Eurocopter issued a safety alert to operators of its EC135 helicopters on Monday after aircraft from the same fleet as one that crashed into a Scottish pub last month killing 10 people and some in Europe were found with a fuel gauge defect.
UK-based air services company Bond Aviation grounded its fleet of 38 EC135s on December 11, after an air ambulance, one of its 22 aircraft leased in Britain, was found to have a fuel indicator problem. Tests found others also had the same fault.
A spokesman for Eurocopter, a unit of European aerospace and defence company EADS, said tests by Bond and two other EC135 operators in Europe found possible similar supply-tank fuel gauging errors that overestimated the fuel on board.
"The first analysis shows that the indication of the fuel quantity in the supply tanks could be overestimated," the company said in a statement.
"All crews should be aware that in the worst case a red warning "Low Fuel" could appear without any amber FUEL Caution before."
Eurocopter said it was issuing a safety notice to remind all EC135 operators to follow the safety procedures already in place and outlined in the flight manual, regardless of the aircraft's fuel quantity indication.
The company said it would "update its Safety Information Notice as needed" with investigations continuing.
The discovery of the fault in Bond's fleet came 12 days after one of its EC135s leased to the police crashed into the Clutha pub in Glasgow killing three crew and 7 others.
The helicopter was only minutes away from returning to its base when it dropped vertically on to the roof of the pub.
A preliminary report from the Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) stated last week that initial checks found no engine or gearbox problems and fuel on board. Investigations are continuing.
Bond Aviation said in a statement on Monday that the results of the tests on the rest of its helicopters were validated by Eurocopter, and appropriate repairs were made before returning the aircraft to service.
No one at Bond was immediately available to comment on how many of its aircraft were found to have the fault.
"We also took the decision to increase safety barriers by mandating that all our EC135s should maintain a minimum of 90kg of fuel onboard at all times," Bond Aviation added.
Unquote
------------------------
Regards
Chip
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/12/16/uk-britain-helicopters-idUKBRE9BF1HW20131216
At present I am unable to find the link to the Eurocopter statement directly but I am sure most of you people will do so in short order. However to quote directly from the Reuters link above:
----------------
Quote
(Reuters) - Eurocopter issued a safety alert to operators of its EC135 helicopters on Monday after aircraft from the same fleet as one that crashed into a Scottish pub last month killing 10 people and some in Europe were found with a fuel gauge defect.
UK-based air services company Bond Aviation grounded its fleet of 38 EC135s on December 11, after an air ambulance, one of its 22 aircraft leased in Britain, was found to have a fuel indicator problem. Tests found others also had the same fault.
A spokesman for Eurocopter, a unit of European aerospace and defence company EADS, said tests by Bond and two other EC135 operators in Europe found possible similar supply-tank fuel gauging errors that overestimated the fuel on board.
"The first analysis shows that the indication of the fuel quantity in the supply tanks could be overestimated," the company said in a statement.
"All crews should be aware that in the worst case a red warning "Low Fuel" could appear without any amber FUEL Caution before."
Eurocopter said it was issuing a safety notice to remind all EC135 operators to follow the safety procedures already in place and outlined in the flight manual, regardless of the aircraft's fuel quantity indication.
The company said it would "update its Safety Information Notice as needed" with investigations continuing.
The discovery of the fault in Bond's fleet came 12 days after one of its EC135s leased to the police crashed into the Clutha pub in Glasgow killing three crew and 7 others.
The helicopter was only minutes away from returning to its base when it dropped vertically on to the roof of the pub.
A preliminary report from the Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) stated last week that initial checks found no engine or gearbox problems and fuel on board. Investigations are continuing.
Bond Aviation said in a statement on Monday that the results of the tests on the rest of its helicopters were validated by Eurocopter, and appropriate repairs were made before returning the aircraft to service.
No one at Bond was immediately available to comment on how many of its aircraft were found to have the fault.
"We also took the decision to increase safety barriers by mandating that all our EC135s should maintain a minimum of 90kg of fuel onboard at all times," Bond Aviation added.
Unquote
------------------------
Regards
Chip
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Instrument Availability
In the Eurocopter, if the main engines stop (for whatever reason) and the electrical generators drop out, do you lose the main panel instruments as well or do they continue to function uninterrupted on battery power? Would the pilot actually still have rotor rpm readings, fuel tank readings, attitude and airspeed data still displayed in front of them in the usual position? If not, do the backup instruments have lighting or need to be switched on manually? Just curious.
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Chris Scott
Interesting. Is there any solid information? For example where is the fault? Tanks/wiring/electronics/indicator? How did it happen? Design/installation/age? Anyone got a copy of the Euro advice? Thanks!
Interesting. Is there any solid information? For example where is the fault? Tanks/wiring/electronics/indicator? How did it happen? Design/installation/age? Anyone got a copy of the Euro advice? Thanks!
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Fuel Starvation and establish autorotation
Hello
Looks like there is any combination of facts that can produce this on EC135, there is also a warning on Flight Manual aboout Water drain :
If ther helicopter is parkedon a slope water might be left in the tanks even after the tanks have been drained.
Looks like there is any combination of facts that can produce this on EC135, there is also a warning on Flight Manual aboout Water drain :
If ther helicopter is parkedon a slope water might be left in the tanks even after the tanks have been drained.
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Even though the press are reporting all these fuel issues I can't believe low fuel was the reason for this, or even the first hole in the cheese!
One engine would have flamed out first, due to supply tank capacity differences, Surely the pilot would have made radio contact either stating low fuel or worse an engine out, RFM States min of 8 Min endurance once Warning is shown and AAIB physically took enough fuel out for continued flight.
Just doesn't add up, I've had several fuel indication issues to rectify on other helicopters types, reading 30lbs per side when empty was the worse and none of those dropped out of the sky.
FS
One engine would have flamed out first, due to supply tank capacity differences, Surely the pilot would have made radio contact either stating low fuel or worse an engine out, RFM States min of 8 Min endurance once Warning is shown and AAIB physically took enough fuel out for continued flight.
Just doesn't add up, I've had several fuel indication issues to rectify on other helicopters types, reading 30lbs per side when empty was the worse and none of those dropped out of the sky.
FS
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That's not exclusive to the EC135!
Once again it is ALL in the wording. EC have not at any stage said that this probe was contaminated by water. Read the f-ing release for God's sake!
It is purely a reminder. How many times on this thread do I have to say that you need to READ the press releases and see what is FACT.
Once again it is ALL in the wording. EC have not at any stage said that this probe was contaminated by water. Read the f-ing release for God's sake!
It is purely a reminder. How many times on this thread do I have to say that you need to READ the press releases and see what is FACT.
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Here's an example of wording crime (fictional):
A man was killed today when his car left the road during a heavy rainstorm and struck a tree. A police spokesman took the opportunity to remind people about the dangers of speeding in rain and the need to have a minimum 1.6mm tread on their tyres.
The car had fairly new tyres and was within the speed limit, but the statement gave useful public information to prevent further accidents........ think about it
A man was killed today when his car left the road during a heavy rainstorm and struck a tree. A police spokesman took the opportunity to remind people about the dangers of speeding in rain and the need to have a minimum 1.6mm tread on their tyres.
The car had fairly new tyres and was within the speed limit, but the statement gave useful public information to prevent further accidents........ think about it
Henry: http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/529...-ec135s-3.html Post #50.
10watt: All aircraft fall out of the sky, some are controlled falls and others.....not. Lockerbie, Flight 182 and Strathclyde to name a few.
10watt: All aircraft fall out of the sky, some are controlled falls and others.....not. Lockerbie, Flight 182 and Strathclyde to name a few.
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It seems more and more like the Rotor on the downed Heli was not powered or autorotating, 1000ft would take possibly 2 to 4 seconds to be lost before contact with the ground(read Public House roof)....
So just how quickly would upward airflow, a slowing down set of engines drag from the powering down gearbox cause the main rotor to stop turning as seems to be the case with this particular helicopter incident, could it be that some sort of emergency on this type of engine/G/box/Rotor system would leave any experienced Pilot a similar time as has been quoted for the R22 in otherwords 1.1 seconds, which sadly would be lost in the blink of an eye whilst starting to scan vital instruments,...
As I am a PPL(H) this thread has been read from end to end by me but I still have great difficulty in understanding why it seems that the rotor was not turning to give the pilot some assitance, as a PPL I have practised Auto's many times on Robinsons, Jet Rs and the Gazelle, by following the known route they always worked,...so what stopped this emergency landing from happening on such a sophisticated Heli.? or do we all have to wait for the AAIB results..!
Peter R-B
Lancashire
So just how quickly would upward airflow, a slowing down set of engines drag from the powering down gearbox cause the main rotor to stop turning as seems to be the case with this particular helicopter incident, could it be that some sort of emergency on this type of engine/G/box/Rotor system would leave any experienced Pilot a similar time as has been quoted for the R22 in otherwords 1.1 seconds, which sadly would be lost in the blink of an eye whilst starting to scan vital instruments,...
As I am a PPL(H) this thread has been read from end to end by me but I still have great difficulty in understanding why it seems that the rotor was not turning to give the pilot some assitance, as a PPL I have practised Auto's many times on Robinsons, Jet Rs and the Gazelle, by following the known route they always worked,...so what stopped this emergency landing from happening on such a sophisticated Heli.? or do we all have to wait for the AAIB results..!
Peter R-B
Lancashire
Various statements from Bond Air Services are also in thread Bond ground all UK EC135s
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/529...uk-ec135s.html
Posts #57, #52, #1
airsound
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/529...uk-ec135s.html
Posts #57, #52, #1
airsound
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Eurocopter Safety Notice
Statement in response to Eurocopter Safety Information Notice No. 2673-S-28
16-Dec-2013
We note that Eurocopter has today issued a Safety Information Notice to operators of the EC135 across the world confirming that some of their aircraft have a fault in the fuel indication and alert system which means that warning system may not work properly. This was a fault discovered by Bond during normal service operations on Wednesday 11th, which we immediately reported to Eurocopter and the appropriate authorities. We understand other operators have since conducted similar tests and found similar problems with their aircraft. As soon as we discovered this issue, in line with our commitment to the highest standards of safety, we took the prudent decision to temporarily suspend service operations whilst we conducted checks on our fleet of EC135s. The results of these tests were subsequently validated by Eurocopter, and appropriate repairs made before returning the aircraft to service. We also took the decision to increase safety barriers by mandating that all our EC135s should maintain a minimum of 90kg of fuel onboard at all times.
16-Dec-2013
We note that Eurocopter has today issued a Safety Information Notice to operators of the EC135 across the world confirming that some of their aircraft have a fault in the fuel indication and alert system which means that warning system may not work properly. This was a fault discovered by Bond during normal service operations on Wednesday 11th, which we immediately reported to Eurocopter and the appropriate authorities. We understand other operators have since conducted similar tests and found similar problems with their aircraft. As soon as we discovered this issue, in line with our commitment to the highest standards of safety, we took the prudent decision to temporarily suspend service operations whilst we conducted checks on our fleet of EC135s. The results of these tests were subsequently validated by Eurocopter, and appropriate repairs made before returning the aircraft to service. We also took the decision to increase safety barriers by mandating that all our EC135s should maintain a minimum of 90kg of fuel onboard at all times.
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Here is how it is being reported in the press.
It contains a confusing mixture of gallons, litres, lbs and kg when it mentions fuel.
Yahoo News UK & Ireland - Latest World News & UK News Headlines
It contains a confusing mixture of gallons, litres, lbs and kg when it mentions fuel.
Yahoo News UK & Ireland - Latest World News & UK News Headlines
In addition, the helicopter still had 21 gallons (95 litres) of the 882lb (400kg) of fuel that it had taken off with from Glasgow City Heliport.
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Fuel and SIN
I was going to ask "at what point in the low fuel indication process would the accident aircraft have been at with 95ltrs remaining?"
However, it strikes me that all the AAIB have said is that 95ltrs were drained immediately after the helicopter was removed from the building. It makes no comment on the total amount of fuel remaining on board.
However, it strikes me that all the AAIB have said is that 95ltrs were drained immediately after the helicopter was removed from the building. It makes no comment on the total amount of fuel remaining on board.
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Winch, what do you mean? I know the facts of the latest incident 100% (there's a clue). What I said is correct. The primary system failed, the back up worked as advertised. The company were fabulous, taking the correct rectification steps. Job well done, aircraft flying safely again, now sort out long term plan in slower time. How can anyone criticise that response?
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Also, what you said has nothing at all to do with what I said. Products get recalls all the time; my harley, Ford and Ikea lights have all been affected. It's how you deal with the problem that will judge you. When you have a blame culture, people try to cover up their mistakes. So do you really want to start blaming?