Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Emergency Breathing Systems

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Emergency Breathing Systems

Old 5th Nov 2013, 19:21
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Glasgow
Age: 28
Posts: 4
Question Emergency Breathing Systems

Hi there, My name's Drew Brown, i'm a student at the University of Strathclyde. For my final year project i'm looking into improving Emergency Breathing Systems used during helicopter transit to and from offshore oil rigs. As part of my research i've put together a short survey that I was hoping you might be able to complete. It would be a great help to get a number of replies and there are obviously a number of experienced and knowledgeable posters here. It is relevant to global offshore flights so whether you are a pilot or a passenger it would be brilliant if you could take 5 minutes to fill it in. https://strathbusiness.qualtrics.com...l461jduwgaAtpz . Thanks in advance. It would be much appreciated.
dbro91 is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2013, 10:04
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 442
I think you will find that none of the North Sea pilots on this forum have an EBS unless they are SAR crews. These cost money unfortunately so it is cheaper to get another pilot
cyclic is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2013, 10:31
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 71
Posts: 16,313
Cyclic.....being the cynical bastard he is.....is also being very honest I am afraid.
SASless is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2013, 13:05
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Glasgow
Age: 28
Posts: 4
Thumbs up

ah right, thanks for the feedback. Apparently its not an actually regulation yet but people are being recommended to carry them. I suppose it was naive of me to imagine they would be supplied when they aren't mandatory.
Not having a background in oil (although I do know a number of people working in the industry in Aberdeen) I suppose it just seemed sensible for EBS to be a requirement considering apparently nowadays drowning and breath hold time is a the main factor in fatalities.

Thanks again to everyone who is filling in the survey!
dbro91 is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2013, 13:23
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 3,662
You could always buy your own, I suppose and club together for some personal training - could save lives?
I know of at least 2 occasions where the life of the pilot was saved due to STASS.
Thomas coupling is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2013, 14:10
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 442
Why thank you SAS.

TC, this has been done but you need jackets modified to carry them and it becomes a piece of unauthorised kit which hasn't been tested by a design department using a direct nuclear hit. Strapping said STASS to ankles doesn't work either - it has been tried...
cyclic is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2013, 15:09
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 71
Posts: 16,313
dbro,

In the 332 Crash thread there was a good discussion about Breathing Systems.....you might try looking through that thread to pick up some ideas of what the Industry is doing and how it is being received by Passengers and Pilots.
SASless is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2013, 15:27
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,200
Originally Posted by Thomas coupling View Post
You could always buy your own, ...

Unauthorised pressure vessel?
jimf671 is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2013, 18:56
  #9 (permalink)  
GipsyMagpie
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
You should think about how the military do it. Any copter over water (OK big bits of water - seas, oceans) has all crew trained and equipped with stass (which needs neither switch nor button to activate in theory). Plus I believe those fine chaps in dark blue give all their passengers PSTASS which is operated with a turn valve. A wise old QHI once said "Aviation is an expense business" and he is right. But giving people stass cannot be that expensive surely?
 
Old 6th Nov 2013, 20:07
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norway
Age: 40
Posts: 45
CHC and Bristow in Norway issues a quite clever Emergency Breathing Device to their passengers.
It's a sort of "re-breather", just a mouthpiece attached to a hose that goes inside the drysuit. That way they breathe/rebreathe the air in the suit - and gives them some valuable extra time if they get submerged.

The CREW on the other hand doesn't get anything!
But we - of course - are machines!

And the crew on the "Los"-helicopters (Los=Harbour pilot) fly with personal emergency-bottles of air.
charlieDontSurf is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2013, 07:10
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: no comment ;)
Age: 55
Posts: 770
Products like "spare air" cost approx $300
but: (US TSA example)
"A compressed gas cylinder is allowed in carry-on or checked baggage ONLY if the regulator valve is completely disconnected from the cylinder and the cylinder is no longer sealed (i.e. the cylinder has an open end). The cylinder must have an opening to allow for a visual inspection inside. TSA Security Screeners will NOT remove the seal/regulator valve from the cylinder at the checkpoint. If the cylinder is sealed (i.e. the regulator valve is still attached), the cylinder is prohibited and not permitted through the security checkpoint, regardless of the reading on the pressure gauge indicator. TSA Security Screeners must visibly ensure that the cylinder is completely empty and that there are no prohibited items inside."
According to my (limited) knowledge certified FAA/EASA (aviation) spare air device not exist... hope someone can correct that statement
9Aplus is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2013, 11:18
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 71
Posts: 16,313
just a mouthpiece attached to a hose that goes inside the drysuit
That could be a terrible choice for some.....Icy Salt Water or the Essence of last night's Beer and Curry.
SASless is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2013, 12:07
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Glasgow
Age: 28
Posts: 4
Excellent repsonses guys, thanks a lot! Really helps.
Yeah, form my reading it looks like STASS is the best choice due to it being more easily activated and it's apparently the only one that has been shown to actually save lives although im sure re-breathers have their merits too.
I have looked at the Norwegian immersion suits with their rebreathers (made by helly hansen i think) and they do look quite impressive and functional.
dbro91 is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2013, 12:18
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 71
Posts: 16,313
The Dry Suit thing works so long as the Suit is worn properly and does not fill with water I would assume.
SASless is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2013, 12:22
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 1,229
The UK issued rebreather system was supposedly chosen as it did not need any specialist knowledge to deploy and use.

However it does need the valve to be operated and once it inflates it further impedes escape through those small windows.

My preference would be a positive air supply ass it could be very compact. But people would have to understand the potential for hyperbaric injury if they misuse it.
gasax is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2013, 15:12
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oakdale Ca.
Age: 55
Posts: 63
From this website,HEED 3 - Submersible Systems life saving Helicopter Emergency Egress Device it says these companies use the Heed3 system,looks small enough

Bond Helicopter, England British Petroleum CHC Helicopter Corporation, Canada ERA Helicopters, LAOffshore Helicopter Support, LAFleetwood Offshore Service, England Sikorsky Aircraft, CT Aramco, Saudi Arabia Communications Aerotech, MS

jim63 is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2013, 17:30
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: london
Posts: 628
Fortunately I have never needed to use these systems in anger, but I have worn a rebreather for some time as a stand alone device. I have measured oxygen and carbon dioxide levels in a hospital setting using the device, and even with maximum hyperventilation I don't get uncomfortable hypercarbia for well over 90 seconds, and beyond this it is rather academic. The size of the pocket is large enough so that one exhaled breath - in practice little over a litre - does not distend the pocket to prevent egress.

A significant benefit is that it can be deployed during the descent so that on contact with water all you have to do is pull the pin on the mouthpiece. The mouthpiece is in your mouth and locatable. By comparison any compressed air system has to be taken out of a pocket with a risk of dropping it especially in cold water. Then it has to be rotated, possibly in the dark, so the mouthpiece faces you, and then you have to expel water from the system.

I am sure with practice this is all possible, but just replacing a mouthpiece underwater often causes difficulties for amateur divers.
homonculus is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2013, 17:54
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SW
Posts: 166
The HEED system pictured above looks identical to the STASS used by UK Mil.

Just remove the "HEED" logo and insert NSN.
switch_on_lofty is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2013, 19:36
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sweden
Age: 49
Posts: 4
Managed to post the following twice....


Last edited by buzz111; 7th Nov 2013 at 20:17.
buzz111 is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2013, 19:57
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sweden
Age: 49
Posts: 4
Emergency Breathing Systems

Hi Drew

I'm working at the Norwegian Sea Pilot Ops that CharlieDontSurf mentioned.

We are using the HABD II for the crew. The compressed air bottle is sitting in a pouch on the back/side of the life vest. The mouth piece is connected to a hose running over the right shoulder and is easily found and established using one hand.
The pilot monitoring and the crew in the back may very well establish the HABD before ditching is so wished.

Contrary to previous post, there's no turning or removing from pocket needed - so no risk of loosing it. As with a standard scuba system, you can even purge your mouth piece before using it ( to get rid of water in the system)

The life vest seemed a bit heavy with the new gear installed, but it only took a few trips to get used to the extra weight.

I've used the system on several occasions during HUET and find it excellent. The fact that you have time to think, before unstrapping snd leaving your station when submerged, is bound to largely better your odds.

The downside is, that using the system requires training or you will most probably do some serious damage to your lungs if using it.

Good luck with your project!

Rgds
buzz111 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.