EC 120 training in the UK
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Around.
I did my EC120 TR in Swizerland, at Swiss helicopters, former Heli Gotthard, great school, and fun flying around in the alps if you have time for it.
I can highly recommend that if you have the time for it.
I can highly recommend that if you have the time for it.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: London
It's not just EC120, but most turbines.
Insurance is so prohibitive for most schools if they attempt to offer true SFH on turbines without a large amount of experience that it's been largely shut down.
The place I used to work was a 10 hour total time requirement, but that slipped to thirty, and is now at least fifty on type.
Insurance is so prohibitive for most schools if they attempt to offer true SFH on turbines without a large amount of experience that it's been largely shut down.
The place I used to work was a 10 hour total time requirement, but that slipped to thirty, and is now at least fifty on type.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
From: England & Scotland
Insurance requirement, or the size of the excess if you don't carry a safety pilot. I know, as I pay the insurance!
As said above, EBG have 2x they can offer type training on. SFH without a safety pilot requires that you meet two tests - total hrs and hrs on type - and also accept liability for a VERY large insurance excess.
Or take a safety pilot; no hrs limit and they carry the excess charge risk
John
As said above, EBG have 2x they can offer type training on. SFH without a safety pilot requires that you meet two tests - total hrs and hrs on type - and also accept liability for a VERY large insurance excess.
Or take a safety pilot; no hrs limit and they carry the excess charge risk
John
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Suffolk
Oh come John don't tease... what are these minimum hrs and minimum hrs on type you talk of?? I've heard a 75k excess mentioned also!! I and I'm guessing others on here didn't spend thousands of pounds learning and qualifying on type to fly with a safety pilot all the time.. True P1 is what we aspire to!!
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 35
Likes: 1
From: UK
I've recently bought an EC120 and had no issues with insurance. I had no hours on type and only 100h total time. Excess £2k and no requirement for a safety pilot or min hours.
However, regardless of insurance being lax, I do still take a safety pilot for the time being, however for local trips I am starting to fly solo now three months on.
I can also name other pilots to fly solo as well. Appreciate not exactly for SFH but it is a full commercial policy.
However, regardless of insurance being lax, I do still take a safety pilot for the time being, however for local trips I am starting to fly solo now three months on.
I can also name other pilots to fly solo as well. Appreciate not exactly for SFH but it is a full commercial policy.
Last edited by Maff; 17th September 2013 at 22:22.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
From: England & Scotland
Initially (when I started in this hiring business a mere 4 years back) insurance for SFH on my 120 had no limits for hrs on type or total hrs and a fixed £2k excess (plus, for you, an added 'loss of business' compensation payment of about £1,000 if the machine was down for a while). All we had was a review of flying skills and license before deciding to accept / reject the work opportunity.
First warning sign came with a SFH (a very, very experienced pilot with military and civilian turbine but low-hrs on type) starting incorrectly and creating a 4-second over-temp just 2 degrees C short of "engine toast". All SFH pilots were then monitored for "first start" at the field (though after that they were on their own) on each hire. No insurance impact from that event, fortunately.
Then the machine was W/O which the insurer paid out on. On renewal they changed the terms & conditions. New requirement for total hrs 200, hrs on type 50 OR CPL(H) with less hrs (can't recall) on any turbine and type-rating for EC120. Safety pilot required below these hours. In addition, the excess was increased to £75,000, reduced to £25,000 (regardless of hours) with a safety pilot on-board.
After a few months I changed insurance companies, but the options are for insurance are rather limited in UK.
Now there is no longer an insurance-company specified minimum hrs or safety pilot impact on excess. BUT..... who can SFH is negotiated individually as one more bent airframe = potentially uninsurable and out of business (for both my aircraft).
Much, much choosier now about who flies her and whether they can go without a safety pilot. She therefore does have some 'solo' SFH work. From my viewpoint, as owner, the additional business income potential must balance with the additional risk that I (unavoidably) take on from that hire. My 120 is remarkably busy at present (touch wood!) so it is paying its way.
DMW2007 is right - we all want sole pilot P1 not the cost / space / weight of a safety pilot. Therefore I think it is worth checking with the business whether they will solo SFH the machine to you (when qualified) before you go for type rating training. I would say (personally) it is better that you do the type rating training with the guys who will provide what you want after qualifying - they will be more sure of your abilities.
First warning sign came with a SFH (a very, very experienced pilot with military and civilian turbine but low-hrs on type) starting incorrectly and creating a 4-second over-temp just 2 degrees C short of "engine toast". All SFH pilots were then monitored for "first start" at the field (though after that they were on their own) on each hire. No insurance impact from that event, fortunately.
Then the machine was W/O which the insurer paid out on. On renewal they changed the terms & conditions. New requirement for total hrs 200, hrs on type 50 OR CPL(H) with less hrs (can't recall) on any turbine and type-rating for EC120. Safety pilot required below these hours. In addition, the excess was increased to £75,000, reduced to £25,000 (regardless of hours) with a safety pilot on-board.
After a few months I changed insurance companies, but the options are for insurance are rather limited in UK.
Now there is no longer an insurance-company specified minimum hrs or safety pilot impact on excess. BUT..... who can SFH is negotiated individually as one more bent airframe = potentially uninsurable and out of business (for both my aircraft).
Much, much choosier now about who flies her and whether they can go without a safety pilot. She therefore does have some 'solo' SFH work. From my viewpoint, as owner, the additional business income potential must balance with the additional risk that I (unavoidably) take on from that hire. My 120 is remarkably busy at present (touch wood!) so it is paying its way.
DMW2007 is right - we all want sole pilot P1 not the cost / space / weight of a safety pilot. Therefore I think it is worth checking with the business whether they will solo SFH the machine to you (when qualified) before you go for type rating training. I would say (personally) it is better that you do the type rating training with the guys who will provide what you want after qualifying - they will be more sure of your abilities.
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