Ambulance Victoria Winching Accident
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
JB - thanks hadn't NB'd the HEMS operating site part
sagy - a double thumbs up doesn't really signify anything in terms of controlling the winching and keeps both hands away from the casualty which seems rather bizarre.
sagy - a double thumbs up doesn't really signify anything in terms of controlling the winching and keeps both hands away from the casualty which seems rather bizarre.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Mostly at work these days
Very sad news indeed and first of all would like to offer condolences to all the crew involved 
As for the video......hmmmmm, seems like he was more interested in putting on a show than doing his job. Hoisting 101? Yep, hooking up is usually a good idea, as has been mentioned the double thumbs up is good when your team scores, not needed so much during hoisting evolution.
Im personally not that familiar with the "sitting" stoop, but know when we used the older version, the tech ALWAYS kept his legs and one arm around the person, to prevent him from reaching out at the A/C and ruining everyone's day.
In this type of scenario, I always liked the basket....easy to use, very hard to fall out of.
Just my 2 cents worth.
As for the video......hmmmmm, seems like he was more interested in putting on a show than doing his job. Hoisting 101? Yep, hooking up is usually a good idea, as has been mentioned the double thumbs up is good when your team scores, not needed so much during hoisting evolution.
Im personally not that familiar with the "sitting" stoop, but know when we used the older version, the tech ALWAYS kept his legs and one arm around the person, to prevent him from reaching out at the A/C and ruining everyone's day.
In this type of scenario, I always liked the basket....easy to use, very hard to fall out of.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 201
Likes: 4
From: Back of Bourke
This morning's Herald Sun:
Fall hunter may have raised arms
A hunter may have raised his arms moments before he fell 30m to his death from an ambulance helicopter in dense Victorian bushland.
Ambulance Employees Australia secretary Steve McGhie said early indications were that 68-year-old Robert Davies may have slipped from his harness.
"He raised his arms to grab or reach for something," he said. "It sounds like he may have slipped out of the sling"
A hunter may have raised his arms moments before he fell 30m to his death from an ambulance helicopter in dense Victorian bushland.
Ambulance Employees Australia secretary Steve McGhie said early indications were that 68-year-old Robert Davies may have slipped from his harness.
"He raised his arms to grab or reach for something," he said. "It sounds like he may have slipped out of the sling"
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne
Double thumbs up signals clear of all ground obstacles in this operation, 1 thumb up clear to ascend. Actually has nothing to do with putting on a show. For the record it was the crewmans first operational winch, with no other on ground assistance, and a patient who was 2 km from the nearest road, initially refusing to be winched. The banter regarding this tragedy I find pretty heartless in the absence of any official reporting. Pretty easy to chuck in apples from the sidelines when you're not involved.
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: N.T
What actually failed/broke?
Quote:
"We like to make sure that we check the equipment all the way down to every connector, every strap we use, the winching machine, everything that is mechanical and we've gone through that, or the engineers have gone through that," he said.
If the "winching machine"
and all its associated kit were good, then one thing that could have gone wrong was him lifting his arms as he got to the door and falling out the strop.
I know from personal experience that the strop gets uncomfortable and I am only 89 kilos, so a larger person would be quite likely in a pretty sore state after being winched and it would almost be a reflex to reach out to the person at the door for assistance, and that would be the last thing the patient should do.
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What brand of winching kit do the HEMS choppers use?
Any indications of failure? Or possible human error?
3 choppers have been cleared to fly.. What about the remaining 2?
Quote:
"We like to make sure that we check the equipment all the way down to every connector, every strap we use, the winching machine, everything that is mechanical and we've gone through that, or the engineers have gone through that," he said.
If the "winching machine"
and all its associated kit were good, then one thing that could have gone wrong was him lifting his arms as he got to the door and falling out the strop. I know from personal experience that the strop gets uncomfortable and I am only 89 kilos, so a larger person would be quite likely in a pretty sore state after being winched and it would almost be a reflex to reach out to the person at the door for assistance, and that would be the last thing the patient should do.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What brand of winching kit do the HEMS choppers use?
Any indications of failure? Or possible human error?
3 choppers have been cleared to fly.. What about the remaining 2?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 28
From: UK/OZ
..and it would almost be a reflex to reach out to the person at the door for assistance, and that would be the last thing the patient should do.
A "harness" that you hang a civilian, untrained, sick person from, that can come undone?
Mickjoebill
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Canada
What would possess someone to use a strop (horse collar) with out a crotch strap. (assuming that is what was used here) Any system that relies on active patient participation is doomed to failure as we have seen. We use screamer suits that you can't come out of and have a horse collar for special circumstances, and it has a crotch strap as well. It's not like they're more expensive or harder to use.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 582
Likes: 0
From: home and abroad
While I was on SAR not too long ago it was either a basket or a double strop with the winchman securing the victim. Stretchers for the people that were immobile, off course.
But neither method of lifting depended on the person's actions. You cannot expect someone who needs to be airlifted out of a predicament to be able to cope 100% of the time with following instructions.
I understand having to perform SAR on a budget, but then there are cases you simply cannot attend or perform. Tough calls to make but they need to be made.
But neither method of lifting depended on the person's actions. You cannot expect someone who needs to be airlifted out of a predicament to be able to cope 100% of the time with following instructions.
I understand having to perform SAR on a budget, but then there are cases you simply cannot attend or perform. Tough calls to make but they need to be made.
