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Bell 505 Jet Ranger X

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Bell 505 Jet Ranger X

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Old 11th Mar 2018, 00:07
  #521 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
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Sorry, but a secondhand Jetranger, or Longranger, is just plain better looking. Regardless of age...
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 01:27
  #522 (permalink)  
 
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After you look at this Bell 47 model G for long enough, the 505 look very fine
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 01:47
  #523 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BigMike View Post
Sorry, but a secondhand Jetranger, or Longranger, is just plain better looking. Regardless of age...
True that. The 206 is the Beech Bonanza of helicopters.
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 06:32
  #524 (permalink)  
 
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FH1100 ....I love your statement....
“ Nigel's (so far) uneducated opinion is backed-up by a Bell employee.“

I have spoken with many “ non Bell “ people !! I find it strange that you exert so much time and effort into trying to persuade people that this new Helicoper is a pile of sh*t and yet you will never own one , never fly one or operate one . Apart from being an inept Helicoper designer and probably ignored by Bell in the past ..... is there another reason for you lurking around spouting the same old gibberish?!! You made about 5-6 main hat eating statements and all were wrong . You haven’t eaten your hat and are obviously just not a man of your word !!!
.....,,,, and yes the FRAM dampers are optional so it is perfectly likely that some of the demo ships would be without . My friend did his acceptance flight at 125 knots without and decided it was not needed .
🍴🎩
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 09:20
  #525 (permalink)  
 
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Putting hat eating to one side for a minute...

Is there a high skid option? The skid height in the photos looks sort of half way between 206 low/high skids?
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 13:34
  #526 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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last night i tried a few things to help me become attracted to the 505 design.
I used an opaque filter. didn't help.
I squinted my eyes. didn't help.
I dimmed the lights, opened some wine and drank 2/3's of the bottle. almost helped.
I hit my head with a hammer. didn't help.
I used a bigger hammer, then ran into a wall. When I woke up...didn't help.
I held my breath for what seemed an eternity. when it all went black...I saw the most glorious thing, but it wasn't a 505.

I know looks affect different people in many ways. But this is one design I just can't get into no matter how much latitude I give it. With the way this thing is selling, I'm more apt to think it has to do with price, and is directly comparable to last call at the bar when the lights come on and everyone scrambles to find a chick to take home. Your standards are immediately lowered. but hey, you're getting something.
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 22:08
  #527 (permalink)  
 
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Grey .... Everyone is entitled to their opinion !!!! I don't know if you own a helicopter or are going to own one ...but I ask you this question . Is the performance , reliability and cost more important than the looks ?
I admit I may be bias because I am buying one , but I am going from what I think is a beautiful helicopter ( 109) to this one ( which has grown on me but I don't think it is anywhere near as pretty as the old 206 which I also used to own ) . The reason is that if you are actually buying a helicopter , the looks are right at the bottom of the list of your requirements . If you are just a driver ( as most are here ) I think you would be happy to fly a helicopter you think is ugly . If you are an operator , you are only interested in payload , comfort and cost . There are very few people who ever buy a helicopter based upon looks !!!
If you take the price of a good vip spec 505 you are looking at $1.35 -1.4 . With a 1000 hour 3 year warranty you are looking at very cheap flying indeed . Then , if ,( and I think they will ) they go up in price you will then sell at cost or a small profit after a few years .
I have owned and operated Bell 206 , MD500 , AS350 , Enstrom 480 and A109 and I think this will be the best bang for your buck . I may be wrong but I will let you know when I get it in July !!
I still think it is the best value machine out there by a long long way ......
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 22:30
  #528 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BigMike View Post
Putting hat eating to one side for a minute...

Is there a high skid option? The skid height in the photos looks sort of half way between 206 low/high skids?
Yes, the Sacramento PD press release talked about it last week and the sales team confirmed its 6 inches higher, which gets you up to 26” or so.
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 22:34
  #529 (permalink)  
 
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Cargo hook was confirmed at 2000 lbs last week at HAI... going to destroy the value of AS350B2’.... sell them while you can.

Also... FH1100 I’m not an employee of Bell or affiliated with their sales team. I just appreciate a smart design when I see one.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 05:35
  #530 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Agile View Post
After you look at this Bell 47 model G for long enough, the 505 look very fine
That's a J
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 06:20
  #531 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks for the correction

in both cases air-cooling of the engine compartment really seem to have been happening as an afterthought.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 10:21
  #532 (permalink)  
 
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I bet the 505 design looks very "modernist" to the current set of designers, which is why it seems a little bit ugly to us. Little feet, funny nose, big swash plate housing mould, underslung stabiliser, minimalist interior... I think you need to be wearing a black turtleneck pullover to be seen in such a thing. Hang on, didn't the turtleneck jumper feature in the sales pitch of the 206 when it was first released, just a different colour.

I notice they've kept the retro cork throttle grip theme but improved the seats, has the headroom improved?

Now the 429 is a true pilots office with everything done proper, but that's a different story.

Last edited by cattletruck; 12th Mar 2018 at 11:35. Reason: Wishing I had a turtleneck jumper.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 12:11
  #533 (permalink)  
 
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And a different price ! Is that what you are buying ?
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 13:31
  #534 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nigelh View Post
Grey .... Everyone is entitled to their opinion !!!! I don't know if you own a helicopter or are going to own one ...but I ask you this question . Is the performance , reliability and cost more important than the looks ?
no, don't own one. won't ever buy one, but almost 30yrs in the industry I think justifies that i can have my own opinion.
To answer your question from my standpoint. performance outweighs everything. and reliability is close second Thats from an operational view. I love the Kmax. but it's uglier than most peoples side chick.
However, I won't buy an ugly car, even if its does 1/4 mile times faster than anything, or handles like it's on rails, or has a kick ass warranty. I just won't be seen driving around in something hideous.
I value your commitment to the aircraft, you've done your homework, and believe you've made the right choice for yourself. But I agree to disagree on this helicopters looks. If anything grows on me about it, it will be the legacy components that have years and years behind them that contribute to its reliability, but lack any real advancement in technology. Its a bargain for a reason and that appeals to many.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 13:52
  #535 (permalink)  
 
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Nigelh is absolutely correct and sums it up well in his post 527.
Around one mil sterling for a brand new turbine helicopter represents
exceptional value compared to new 500s, 600s squirrels, longrangers etc.
Probably close to HALF price!! It will also knock some realism into the used
market for sure.
However i wont be buying one, that Turbmeca engine spoils the
party for me
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Old 13th Mar 2018, 08:25
  #536 (permalink)  
 
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Claudia ..... I hear what you say !!!
I swore I would never put myself into Turbomeca,s hands again ... I sold my lovely AS350 BA because of Turbomeca and looked at buying a D2 ( Honeywell) .
After a long chat with Bell I have been pulled around . If the French play silly buggers with Bells customers it will hurt them !!! Also the maintenance package with the engine is such good value and covers everything incl overhauls etc making this a fixed cost per hour to fly . I am already thinking I should put an order in for my next one so I can sell this one with some factory warranty.... hopefully for the same or more than I paid for it . Now that would be nice !!
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Old 13th Mar 2018, 13:24
  #537 (permalink)  
 
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Nigel, I hear what you say and indeed believe you will easily sell
it on in the short term ie 2/3 years for cost or more even if doesnt
do the magic 125kts !!
You have put your money were your mouth is so you deserve some
good economical flying.-- Enjoy I am jealous
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Old 13th Mar 2018, 21:16
  #538 (permalink)  
 
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Well , I will be flying regularly between Yorkshire and London so if you ever want a bit of stick time PM me !! ( should be up and going by mid August unless FH1100 is correct and they stop building it !!
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Old 13th Mar 2018, 22:53
  #539 (permalink)  
 
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A very kind gesture, many thanks. Maybe take you up on that some day!
In the meantime do please let us all know how you are getting on when you have a few hours under your belt.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 15:11
  #540 (permalink)  
 
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Nigel, oh Nigel, why must you always make it personal? Why be so petty and childish? It makes you look so...well...petty and childish.

Why do you say I'll never own, much less fly a 505? You don't know that. Why do you say I'm a failed helicopter designer? I never said I've designed anything. The FH1100 was already fully designed when I worked there. All we were trying to do was put it back in production with some modern improvements.

All I've ever said is that I've spent my life flying helicopters, mostly two-blade systems, and mostly Bells. And no, Bell never rejected me; they never had the chance to.

I do spend time, but I most assuredly do not spend effort criticizing the 505. The time is mine to use as I please, as I'm semi-retired, so don't concern yourself with my personal, free-time activities.

I've always been skeptical of manufacturers' claims. And Bell really stretched the envelope with the 505. Claiming a "125+ knot" cruise is simply ludicrous. A two-blade that's as fast as a 407? Yeah, right. Now hear this: IT'S NOT GOING TO CRUISE AT 125 KNOTS. If the main rotor "two-per" doesn't prevent that, then the cabin pitch attitude and fuel burn will. But it's fun for Bell to make such a ridiculous claim. Because some nitwits believe it. Other nitwits repeat it like it's true. No pilot-report that I have read has stated, "We set the power, and the 505 settled into a nice, comfortable 125-knot cruise, with plenty of forward cyclic travel left." One does not have to be a helicopter designer to know that won't happen; one has only had to have flown a 206L. It sure would be nice to have an actual test pilot fly and evaluate the 505, not the giggling fangirls that have flown it so far.

And, dear Nigel, the expression, "I'll eat my hat," is what we call a colloquialism. It's not to be taken literally. Only a child would. It is true that I thought that Bell would never produce the 505. So I was wrong there. But...typical Bell...they claim a low price-point ("Around $1million") and to do that they give you an El Strippo version with EVERYTHING being an optional extra...optional extras that are standard on the Robinson and Airbus competitors. Bell Salesman: "I see you've chosen the red one - great choice, sir! Now...would you like your landing gear also painted red? It's only $4,500 more! And come on...what's $4,500 when you're buying million-dollar helicopter?"

It is also true that I've said it will sprout endplates on the afterthought horizontal stab. I still think it eventually will, especially if people force it to cruise along at max power.

I find it odd that people gloss over the exposed tail rotor gearbox, and the placard that allows up to, what, FORTY POUNDS of extra ballast?? Jiminy Christmas! Bell must have really thought that the horizontal was going back there. Oopsie!

I suppose that Bell left the gearbox exposed because the weight back there is pilot-adjustable depending on the mission? Great...now we're back to the days of moving the 47 battery back and forth to keep the ship in c.g.? Or is the weight non-adjustable and Bell was just too cheap to design a fairing to cover basically an automobile battery back there?

I'll stop there. I have fun stuff to do today, and I don't want Nigel getting upset that I'm wasting any more time or effort degrading his new wunderkopter.
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