Sea King: BBC2 9pm Thursday 28 FEB 2013
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cornwall
Age: 75
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My dear old friend.....
..... the SK HAS 1.
The clue is the 'HAS' - Helicopter Anti Submarine..... and that sure was what we did better than all comers. Four hour endurance and the 195 Sonar.. wow... and did we ever get up the noses of the Russian submariners.
As member of SK Course No1 which began in January 1970 with colleagues Graham Lee and Paul Hardcastle (RIP). We finished our OFT on Wx3 before Christmas and found ourselves back at CU and back in Ground School. Our instructors were Courtney (John) Horscroft, Mike Clark, Mike Burnett and 'Tigga' Shaw. Courtney would teach them the lesson in the morning and they would teach it to us in the afternoon. Then Courtney went on to be SPLOT of the first SK Squadron - 824 - based on the old Ark Royal - a proper carrier with Phantoms, Buccaneers and Gannets with a Wessex 1 for SARFLIGHT.
Of course in those days our primary role was chasing submarines for hours on end day and night and in all weathers. There were times when I never saw an altitude above 200 feet for months on end.
Our secondary role appeared at times to be keeping the ship and the other squadrons running. We would fly 500 miles from the western approaches to fetch spare parts and even found a way to deliver 6000 lbs of Spey (in steel cradle) for the stovies.
SAR - what a lot of fuss. In those days you were expected to be SAR capable regardless of your seniority or your background. If you were a FAA helicopter pilot then it went with the territory and woe betide you if you expected anything more than a BZ if you got the job done and as far as I remember we generally did.
Shame that the SK's prowess at chasing Ruskies was glossed over. We gave one particular WHISKY CLASS such a hard time one day in the Greenland Gap that he got on the blower (underwater telephone) and asked his shadow (ELINT disguised as a trawler) to come and push us out of the hover. He succeeded but we replied by using the infamous Pee Tube and showering his foredeck with some (Glenmorangie laced) urine.
Happy Days
G.
The clue is the 'HAS' - Helicopter Anti Submarine..... and that sure was what we did better than all comers. Four hour endurance and the 195 Sonar.. wow... and did we ever get up the noses of the Russian submariners.
As member of SK Course No1 which began in January 1970 with colleagues Graham Lee and Paul Hardcastle (RIP). We finished our OFT on Wx3 before Christmas and found ourselves back at CU and back in Ground School. Our instructors were Courtney (John) Horscroft, Mike Clark, Mike Burnett and 'Tigga' Shaw. Courtney would teach them the lesson in the morning and they would teach it to us in the afternoon. Then Courtney went on to be SPLOT of the first SK Squadron - 824 - based on the old Ark Royal - a proper carrier with Phantoms, Buccaneers and Gannets with a Wessex 1 for SARFLIGHT.
Of course in those days our primary role was chasing submarines for hours on end day and night and in all weathers. There were times when I never saw an altitude above 200 feet for months on end.
Our secondary role appeared at times to be keeping the ship and the other squadrons running. We would fly 500 miles from the western approaches to fetch spare parts and even found a way to deliver 6000 lbs of Spey (in steel cradle) for the stovies.
SAR - what a lot of fuss. In those days you were expected to be SAR capable regardless of your seniority or your background. If you were a FAA helicopter pilot then it went with the territory and woe betide you if you expected anything more than a BZ if you got the job done and as far as I remember we generally did.
Shame that the SK's prowess at chasing Ruskies was glossed over. We gave one particular WHISKY CLASS such a hard time one day in the Greenland Gap that he got on the blower (underwater telephone) and asked his shadow (ELINT disguised as a trawler) to come and push us out of the hover. He succeeded but we replied by using the infamous Pee Tube and showering his foredeck with some (Glenmorangie laced) urine.
Happy Days
G.
It's a shame that a thread which should be celebrating one of the most successful aircraft of all time has descended into petty bickering instigated by the usual subjects. I can assure you that there are plenty of us in light blue who can admire the old girl without losing sleep over which way one particular program may have been biased. It doesn't matter. Our yellow ones have had more than their fair share of publicity over the years, maybe some of the public were interested to see a variety of the non-yellow types doing other things?
Geoff,
Nicely summarised: they were good times
Rick Bull and I had to do our conversion the easy way, going to the Sea King IFTU (700S) and finding our way around in the LHS; much less stress than your course? Much the same on Eagle as Ark, especially when we went to NZ and back for the last grand CVA cruise, showing off the latest in ASW tactics and equipment as well as vertrep'ing all sorts of equipment. Even an air portable bulldozer into Lan Tau island to build a water purification plant for the villagers on what is now Hong Kong's international airport!
I think your comment re our SAR capabilities sums it up: we did what was expected of us in a grand machine. The DC3 of the helicopter world
Nicely summarised: they were good times
Rick Bull and I had to do our conversion the easy way, going to the Sea King IFTU (700S) and finding our way around in the LHS; much less stress than your course? Much the same on Eagle as Ark, especially when we went to NZ and back for the last grand CVA cruise, showing off the latest in ASW tactics and equipment as well as vertrep'ing all sorts of equipment. Even an air portable bulldozer into Lan Tau island to build a water purification plant for the villagers on what is now Hong Kong's international airport!
I think your comment re our SAR capabilities sums it up: we did what was expected of us in a grand machine. The DC3 of the helicopter world
For those outside the UK or unable to use BBC's iPlayer, you can download it from here.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20846162/Th...%29%29.mp4.zip
It's 600Mb, so may take a while to download.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20846162/Th...%29%29.mp4.zip
It's 600Mb, so may take a while to download.
Thanks MG - looking forward to viewing it
Please be kind enough to post your opinions as to the bias (or lack of it) once you have actually seen the programme
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hassocks, Mid-Sussex
Age: 67
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crab, the programmed was biased and there's no doubting it no matter what others who may be influenced by their military loyalties might say.
Perhaps we just have to recognise that the Navy is the senior service after all!
I agree with previous comments in that I feel it was wrong to portray the SK as a totally reworked British innovation. What would have been more honest would have been to trace Britain's long standing association with Sikorsky through the Dragonfly, Whirlwind and Wessex and to explain that this was yet another success story in a long line of American helicopters which served the British Armed Forces. This would have been more truthful.
The programme reveals an opportunity to create The Sea King Part Two (are you reading this BBC?) which could set the record straight about the SK's American roots and go into a little more depth about its UK operations including its service with the RAF.
I think they should cross over to the S-61 also because whatever die hard SK fans say, we are talking about an airframe which is essentially cast from the same mould.
With the S-61 you can hit on a couple of prominent British exploits, namely one of the world's longest running helicopter airlines to the Scilies and the decades of support provided by the S-61 in the North Sea.
For The Sea King Part Three they could take the programme around the globe and highlight the many heads of state who have used the Sea King so reliably for so many years - I'm surprised the Queen's Flight never upgraded to the Sea King but suppose it was because the Wessex had not been there that long when the SK came out.
SK ops around the world could take a very interesting look at some different SAR and mil outfits past and present including Australia, Canada, Germany, Belgium, Norway, Qatar, India, Pakistan and Japan to name but a few.
Perhaps we just have to recognise that the Navy is the senior service after all!
I agree with previous comments in that I feel it was wrong to portray the SK as a totally reworked British innovation. What would have been more honest would have been to trace Britain's long standing association with Sikorsky through the Dragonfly, Whirlwind and Wessex and to explain that this was yet another success story in a long line of American helicopters which served the British Armed Forces. This would have been more truthful.
The programme reveals an opportunity to create The Sea King Part Two (are you reading this BBC?) which could set the record straight about the SK's American roots and go into a little more depth about its UK operations including its service with the RAF.
I think they should cross over to the S-61 also because whatever die hard SK fans say, we are talking about an airframe which is essentially cast from the same mould.
With the S-61 you can hit on a couple of prominent British exploits, namely one of the world's longest running helicopter airlines to the Scilies and the decades of support provided by the S-61 in the North Sea.
For The Sea King Part Three they could take the programme around the globe and highlight the many heads of state who have used the Sea King so reliably for so many years - I'm surprised the Queen's Flight never upgraded to the Sea King but suppose it was because the Wessex had not been there that long when the SK came out.
SK ops around the world could take a very interesting look at some different SAR and mil outfits past and present including Australia, Canada, Germany, Belgium, Norway, Qatar, India, Pakistan and Japan to name but a few.
Last edited by Grenville Fortescue; 4th Mar 2013 at 09:05.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Please be kind enough to post your opinions as to the bias (or lack of it) once you have actually seen the programme
Presenter was a bit of a dill, though
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Berkhamsted
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Matters arising
1.The programme was one in a series subtitled Britain`s Flying Past. Other programmes featured the Spitfire and The Lancaster. The presenter, John Sergeant, is an aviation romantic and indulges his love of iconic aircraft on film. It is unlikely that an in depth study of the pedigree of the Sea King and the exploits of its cousins would significantly bother the ratings analysts.
2. Geoffers - SAR what a fuss ? Quite right. Time was when a bucket of fish from a grateful trawler or a pint in the Ship or Atlantic in Porthleven were all the thanks that were needed. The current struggle for column inches and screen time by certain light blue brethren leaves a bit of a sour taste.
3. John Eacott - I thought you had pressed the wrong button when all four went!
2. Geoffers - SAR what a fuss ? Quite right. Time was when a bucket of fish from a grateful trawler or a pint in the Ship or Atlantic in Porthleven were all the thanks that were needed. The current struggle for column inches and screen time by certain light blue brethren leaves a bit of a sour taste.
3. John Eacott - I thought you had pressed the wrong button when all four went!
Did anyone else notice that right at the end of the credits the date of production of the programme was 2007 - long before Prince William was SAR qualified on the Sea King. It looks to me as though this programme had been held in storage and before transmission they added his yellow Sea King to the end of it.
Thanks again MG - a pleasant way to while away a few beers in front of my Mac!
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: England
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GF - re the Royal Flight potential SK use. A frame was secretively ordered in 77 and got as far as being painted in said RF colours. It got caught up in the politics of "The Winter of Discontent" in '79 and PM Callaghan ordered its cancellation. It became the 16th Crab Mk3 (the original order being for only 15 in '77). ZA105 is its mil reg, whereas the 1st 15 were all XZ series. Oh what might have been! 
