Newbie seeks helicopter share Oxford area

[Adamfawsitt]

Thanks for reading my post.

I'm just about to complete my PPL (end of January 2013) and I would be very interested in joining or forming a syndicate on one of the following helicopters:

MD 500
Enstrom 380
Jet ranger
Schweitzer 333

Would be very interested to hear fixed and hourly costs of current groups. To get things started I spoke to a group on a Jetranger which was a nice machine and they were working to £250 per month and £150 an hour but were out of my area.

**Addition to post**

Thank you very much for responses to date and private messages which have been very helpful - one point I think I should have made clear on the Jet ranger share is that it required a £50k injection of equity.

**Addition ends**

Any help or suggestions gratefully received.

Thanks

[RPM AWARE]

Not sure what an Enstrom 380 is, and I don't 'think' you'll find any 333s in the UK but good luck with your quest

That sounds crazy cheap I was in an H300 6 share and we all paid £150 a month and £150 an hour ...and that was a good few years ago

[Kelly Hopper]

Pls check your PM's

[FLY 7]

The Enstrom 480 would be an excellent first Turbine and there are quite a lot of them based just down the A40 at Gloucester. Not sure if there are any shares though.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8477/8...bae5cd7b_z.jpg

[Adamfawsitt]

Newbie error

Thank you for the error correction. I am training at Gloucester and will make some enquiries.

[Clitheroe Kid]

I'm in an equity group running a Hughes 500. We charge £400 pm and £150 ph wet! Every so often we have a large bill, but just split it between us. (one share still available). We upgraded from an Enstrom 480 in February which is still for sale if anyone want to make us an offer. An Enstrom would be a great entry level turbine. Not sure if there are any 333's in the country.

Steve

[Adamfawsitt]

Dear Steve,

Thanks for your reply and suggestion. I found a company selling 3 333's ex pipeline inspection machines apparently.

What is the price of equity entry to your group and where are you based?

Kind regards

Adam

[Runnerbean]

Worth considering and R44

I'm based in Oxfordshire and, having learnt on F28s many moons ago I spent some time thinking about putting a group together to base an Enstrom 480 at Kidlington. However I've recently done an R44 rating and following that I can't really see why one would want to go to the extra expense of a turbine. Can you give us your reasons for excluding the R44 from the list?

[Adamfawsitt]

R44 rationale

I am not considering the R44 at this point because to me the value engineering has gone too far, horror stories about mast bumping and the life limited design. This is my current thinking and I am open to change but I love engineering and really want a helicopter that excites me from an excellence perspective.

[Runnerbean]

Understood - I started out with the same view and it was others on this forum that forced me to keep an open mind. Each type has its pros and cons and there are always those that are for and those that are against. I had a Brantly B2B for a while and plenty of people told me they wouldn't stand out in the open when one of those was in the overhead, but I loved mine! PM me some time with your details if you like and we can keep in touch. My ideal group size would probably be four. Pending any group forming at Oxford I'll probably SFH for the time being.

[industry insider]

Stay clear of the 333, there is no guarantee that Sikorsky will continue to manufacture the Schweizer range or even long term support them. I would stay away from the 480.

You will get maximum bang for your buck with maximum ubiquity. Bell 206 will be the beat value.

[Adamfawsitt]

480 question

Thanks for your thoughts.

Out of interest why would you steer clear of the 480 - I had a recent conversation with a highly informative owner which had swayed me in the direction (worth flying and exploring possibilities) of that machine.

Thanks

Adam

[industry insider]

Long term supportability and cost. The Bell 206 is so common that OEM and PMA parts are easily available at competitive prices as are component overhauls. Count the number of Bell 206s versus 480s in the UK. When paying from your own pocket, aviation is one area where it pays to be one of the herd.

[md 600 driver]

Industry insider
I don't know what industry your in but I doubt it's aviation helicopters

Enstrom parts are available from enstrom and you don't need pma parts as they are so cheap to buy original parts overhauls are no problem either

I speak with experience as a owner of 2 x 480 and 5 x piston also md and Eurocopter models

[industry insider]

MD 600 Driver

The Bell 206 is more common, is still used commercially, is more versatile, has better resale % value than any Enstrom.

In my "no experience" helicopter life since 1980, I have had to try to sell used Bell 206s and Enstrom products at the same time (when liquidating a company). One type sells easily, as it has a large commercial and private market, one does not.

If I was putting my own cash into a helicopter (thankfully I have just enough experience not to do that) and the choice was between any Enstrom and a Bell 206, I would take the 206 every time.

I understand you being sensitive and wanting to belittle other people's experience, I would be promoting my credibility and experience too if I owned 7 Enstrom helicopters, especially 5 of the piston engine ones.

[FLY 7]

B206s are going to be more popular, particularly for commercial uses, with 4 doors and a bigger rear compartment (EN480 is really a 2+2). Other advantages - 2 blades easier to hangar and only needs two TT staps (EN480 needs 3). If it's going to be rented out, a 206 could bring in more income.

But, the 206 production is ending and the EN480 is still a current model. And, you'd get a much newer/lower hour EN480 (ideally 'B') for the price of an equivalent 206.

IMO it's a better first light/private turbine with safe, easy and forgiving handling and robust engineering. It was original designed to be a turbine trainer for the US militarty, and now seems to be selling around the world in a variety of roles.

[md 600 driver]

industry insider
where i will agree a 206 could be more suited to comercial opperations due to its design.but , for private use Enstroms are better suited to private owners

enstroms tend to hold their price or even sell for more, granted not allways the case but this is a helicopter after all

in all my enstroms except the brand new one i bought from the factory i either broke even or made a small capital profit ,the new one i lost some money on but i had a lot of use of it and the capital loss was a lot better than other marques

i often see enstroms that i either owned or knew how much they cost coming up for sale they all seem to be selling at good prices

the ones that lose shedloads of money seem to be the ones with no hours on components or for some reason been abandon[liquidation being one of them ] by their owners and have parts missing these projects sell for peanuts but that would be the same for most helicopters

[Whirlygig]

I am not considering the R44 at this point because to me the value engineering has gone too far, horror stories about mast bumping and the life limited design.

The R44 isn't "Lifed" in the same way as the R22 ... as for mast-bumping? Just don't do it!!!

I've flown both the Jet Ranger (and I have a huge soft spot for the 206) and R44 and was pleasantly surprised by the latter. Even if money were no object, I'd still seriously consider the R44 from the point of view of being bang for your buck!

If you go for an R44, I'd be interested but my budget doesn't stretch to turbine numbers!

Don't touch an S333 with a barge-pole.

Cheers

Whirls

[md 600 driver]

whirlygig
are you sure the r44 isnt lifed like 22 ?

[Adamfawsitt]

R44 timed rebuild

Thank you very much for your post and for the recommendation to try an R44. I am new to all this but my information is that the R44 is timed like the R22.

Happy flying.