UK CPL (H) - ATPL (H)

[Heli-Jock]

Im looking for some advice on a licence matter.
I currently hold a UK CPL, IR (H),,,i was asked today if i hold a ATPL (H)?

Am i right in thinking that i need only to apply, for the ATPL (H) to the CAA and i will be given a "Frozen ATPL (H)?

J

[Camp Freddie]

My understanding is that you need to get a ATPL(H) with no further effort

1) >500 hours on multi pilot helicopters
2) to have passed ATPL(H) level knowledge originally

See CAP804, Section 4 Part P Page 8

No doubt I am wrong though, I usually am

[paco]

If you have an Amendment 3 CPL(H), you have the equivalent of ATPL(H) theoretical knowledge. If it was issued under Amendment 6, you simply have a CPL(H) with IR. In the latter case, to get the ATPL(H) TK you will have to do all 14 exams again.

phil

[ShyTorque]

Freddie, I fear you are wrong.

A few CAA ATPL(H) holders, who have recently tried to renew their licences have found to their cost that there is now more to it than just total hours flown, under EASA rules. Some came away with only a CPL, despite holding a CAA ATPL(H) for many years.

You need multi crew experience and/or training in a certified multi-crew aircraft, unless you have worked for certain operators in certain roles.

[Dennis Kenyon]

ATPL CPL swap

Yes ... as one of the 'unfortunates' for whom EASA decreed that even having held an ATPL for thirty-six years ... under new laws I'm required to be downgraded to a CPL. What kind of madhouse dreams up such changes. 14,000 hours and forty years experience tossed aside on a whim. Just today with around 2,500 type hours, I'm required to fly no less than three separate sorties to renew an MD 369 type rating. Thank goodness, I'm fully retiring from all this as soon as I can. Dennis K.

[jeepys]

ATPL

Heli Jock,

if you currently hold a CPL with IR then you have a CPL licence. To upgrade to a ATPL then there are a few other requirements to hold. They consist of so many hours night, multi crew time (was 350 hrs), maybe a certain amount of instrument time and I think that's about it apart from also passing the ATPL skills test which can be done on an LPC.

Only then can you apply for a ATPL.

This was how it was some time ago when JAR came in and I am sure it has not changed too much.

The old days of the ATPL being primarily dependent on hours total time have long gone.

Cheers.

[misterbonkers]

Dennis - I appreciate 3 sorties is a pain versus the previous 2hr dual flight most us did under JAR but I can't find anything written anywhere that says how long those sorties should be...?

If you've got other SETs don't forget to get them signed off by experience at the same time!

[rotarywise]

I'm required to fly no less than three separate sorties to renew an MD 369 type rating.

Who is 'requiring' you to fly three separate sorties? The amount of refresher training required to renew an expired type rating is entirely at the discretion of the ATO. The AMC that provides guidance to the ATO in determining the amount of training suggests (it actually states, "the following items can (not must) be taken into consideration") that if the rating has expired by more than 1 year then a minimum of 3 'training sessions' may be appropriate.

The term 'training session' is not defined and there is certainly no requirement in the Regulation for it to be a flight. An ATO would be in compliance with the Regulation if it determined that all you needed was three briefings (of undetermined length) before taking the proficiency check. In fact it could, after taking into account the experience of the applicant, the complexity of the aircraft and the amount of time lapsed since expiry, even determine that as many as three training sessions were not required.

I suggest that you consult with a different ATO that might determine 3 flights to be somewhat excessive in your case.

[misterbonkers]

rotarywise - your wisdom appreciated!