Winching in the UK
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,992
Likes: 511
From: UK
Shy Torque - exactly ... I've just realised how terribly, terribly dangerous and life threatening those years in the Whirly were!!!
I suppose it just goes to show how naive and non-H&S sensitive we were.
Brings to mind a tale from one of my mates - operating out of Manston. Just finished 'wets' and sitting in the door in the 'monkey strap'. Nav/W.Op (not quite the sharpest tool in the box) climbed up into the LH seat and used the ICO as a help handle (Piston Whirly) - result, instant noise reduction and (from 40') ditching
Nav just kept moving and exited deploying rubber boat, as did driver. Mate just managed to undo belt before being washed to back of cabin as machine turned turtle. It remained floating and there was a pocket of trapped air in the rear of the cabin which allowed mate to keep head above water and view, through a small portion of window, the creator of this havoc paddling around in his boat and shouting "Come out of there, you silly B****r"!!!
Obviously, he did just that and reported that there was a 'quite lively' subsequent 'conversation' between himself and the Nav!!
I suppose it just goes to show how naive and non-H&S sensitive we were. Brings to mind a tale from one of my mates - operating out of Manston. Just finished 'wets' and sitting in the door in the 'monkey strap'. Nav/W.Op (not quite the sharpest tool in the box) climbed up into the LH seat and used the ICO as a help handle (Piston Whirly) - result, instant noise reduction and (from 40') ditching
Nav just kept moving and exited deploying rubber boat, as did driver. Mate just managed to undo belt before being washed to back of cabin as machine turned turtle. It remained floating and there was a pocket of trapped air in the rear of the cabin which allowed mate to keep head above water and view, through a small portion of window, the creator of this havoc paddling around in his boat and shouting "Come out of there, you silly B****r"!!!
Obviously, he did just that and reported that there was a 'quite lively' subsequent 'conversation' between himself and the Nav!!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 220
Likes: 3
From: australia
(d) Operating requirements
(1) The Helicopter. During HHO, the
helicopter must be capable of sustaining a
critical power unit failure with the remaining
engine(s) at the appropriate power setting,
without hazard to the suspended
person(s)/cargo, third parties, or property.
(Except for HEMS HHO at a HEMS operating
site where the requirement need not be
applied.)
(1) The Helicopter. During HHO, the
helicopter must be capable of sustaining a
critical power unit failure with the remaining
engine(s) at the appropriate power setting,
without hazard to the suspended
person(s)/cargo, third parties, or property.
(Except for HEMS HHO at a HEMS operating
site where the requirement need not be
applied.)
Just a question, are Eurpoean Regs particularly stringent or is the FAA similiar with respect to this sort of thing? And just a question without opening a can of worms, what SE performance does a Seaking have during a winch or being a state registered aircraft does the above "regulation" not apply?? I understand that where possible you want to allow options to fly away, land etc etc but what about those awkard spots were options maybe limited...how does a Seaking go in those situations where not to expose your personnel on the wire to "undue hazards"?
Cheers
Just saw this...should have read properly
(Except for HEMS HHO at a HEMS operating
site where the requirement need not be
applied.)
site where the requirement need not be
applied.)
Last edited by Turkeyslapper; 21st October 2012 at 11:52.
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
TS - whilst risk-mitigation is always undertaken, there remain some situations where there is no single engine flyaway option and a poor area to crash into/onto. We try to minimise exposure to 'certain fiery death' when winching but sometimes it is inevitable (if the casualty is to be saved).
Over the water it is generally straightforward and you always have the option to ditch but overland, narrow gorges and cliffs with tricky winds can make getting a winching solution and a flyaway mutually exclusive.
Inland, even over water can be dodgy - Gloucester floods for example, when operating heavily committed (ditching the only option) over fast moving water which is running between hazards (buildings, pylons etc).
As I understand it, the UK SAR contract will allow the same scenarios to be faced because normal public transport performance criteria need not be met until the rescue is completed.
Over the water it is generally straightforward and you always have the option to ditch but overland, narrow gorges and cliffs with tricky winds can make getting a winching solution and a flyaway mutually exclusive.
Inland, even over water can be dodgy - Gloucester floods for example, when operating heavily committed (ditching the only option) over fast moving water which is running between hazards (buildings, pylons etc).
As I understand it, the UK SAR contract will allow the same scenarios to be faced because normal public transport performance criteria need not be met until the rescue is completed.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: not here
‘HEMS operating site’ means a site selected by the commander during a HEMS flight for helicopter hoist operations, landing and take-off. (Annexe 1 definitions - to the draft Commission Regulation
on ‘Air Operations - OPS’.
The grey area is going to be when does the CAA consider the site/ operation to have crossed from HEMS into SAR and therefore need to comply with CAP 999 and have a state AOC to be carrying out the operation.
Is the plan to increase the crew for winchop and winchman or hope the ambulance crews can load the casualty onto a winch?
on ‘Air Operations - OPS’.
The grey area is going to be when does the CAA consider the site/ operation to have crossed from HEMS into SAR and therefore need to comply with CAP 999 and have a state AOC to be carrying out the operation.
Is the plan to increase the crew for winchop and winchman or hope the ambulance crews can load the casualty onto a winch?
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 189
From: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
people have been wire stringing very successfully in the UK for decades Gordy! Don't let that stop you bashing the CAA though! ;-)
