Helicopter for skydiving.
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Helicopter for skydiving.
Hi All.
Our dropzone currently operates a Cessna Caravan but are looking to offer speciality skydiving from a helicopter.
We are considering an EC 130 or Agusta 119.
I have some questions, any feedback would be much appreciated.
- What would leasing one of these cost. Forecasting about 400 hrs per year.
- What flight times could I expect to FL100 and FL140, weight based on 8 POB and 2 flights of fuel.
- Both these helicopters have seating for upto 8 people, with the seats removed and providing within weight and balance limits, is there anything that prohibits more than 8 POB. The ideal would be 1+8
- Any suggestions on more economical machines.
Our dropzone currently operates a Cessna Caravan but are looking to offer speciality skydiving from a helicopter.
We are considering an EC 130 or Agusta 119.
I have some questions, any feedback would be much appreciated.
- What would leasing one of these cost. Forecasting about 400 hrs per year.
- What flight times could I expect to FL100 and FL140, weight based on 8 POB and 2 flights of fuel.
- Both these helicopters have seating for upto 8 people, with the seats removed and providing within weight and balance limits, is there anything that prohibits more than 8 POB. The ideal would be 1+8
- Any suggestions on more economical machines.
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As a non-parachutist, I am perplexed as to why anyone wants to jump from a helicopter (apart from it being just different).
Surely the costs involved make it significantly more expensive to jump? And if you've done it once, why do it again?
Anyone able to enlighten me?
Surely the costs involved make it significantly more expensive to jump? And if you've done it once, why do it again?
Anyone able to enlighten me?
M 1900 .............
My thoughts too !! Once you have left the aircraft it makes not a hap'peth of differnce what you have jumped from.........
Planemike
My thoughts too !! Once you have left the aircraft it makes not a hap'peth of differnce what you have jumped from.........
Planemike
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I'm told the feeling of jumping from a helicopter/balloon is very different. You get a different sense of free-fall at the start of the jump, whereas jumping staring into 100kt airflow from a plane feels quite different. People seem to especially like the feel of the beginning of a balloon/heli jump and it has it's own appeal which people are prepared to pay for.
Scantech, you are in for a very rude awakening if you start comparing EC and Agusta modern turbines with a Cessna Caravan, my friend. It's like comparing the running costs of a Fiat twingo and a Mercedes F class.
I would suggest running costs for the 130/119 would be in the order of magnitude of perhaps 4 - 6 times. I'm sure customer satisfaction is not going to go up in the same order.
Surely the stall speed of a Cessna Caravan into 50kts of headwind at 6000' is about 40kts groundspeed - no? At 6000' I challenge anyone to "think" they are moving
I would suggest running costs for the 130/119 would be in the order of magnitude of perhaps 4 - 6 times. I'm sure customer satisfaction is not going to go up in the same order.
Surely the stall speed of a Cessna Caravan into 50kts of headwind at 6000' is about 40kts groundspeed - no? At 6000' I challenge anyone to "think" they are moving
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Aside from the cost, there are precious few of the types you mention in the UK. The UK rules mean that operators choose twins for their medium heles. One of the main differences between fixed and rotary is the impact of positioning costs. So, unless you use a hele that is close to your operating location, you will pay a lot of positioning cost.
Assuming there is a good reason for using a hele, it might be a good idea to look at it from the other end: what Heles are based close to you?
Assuming there is a good reason for using a hele, it might be a good idea to look at it from the other end: what Heles are based close to you?
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I’m an active skydiver and yes it is fun/unique to jump from differing types of aircraft. This request, I assume, is for specialty jumps which skydivers will pay several multiples of lift ticket cost just to have the experience.
On one hand yes it is just “air”, but it does add to the experience doing it in differing countries and from differing aircraft. I’ve jumped Mil MI8’s, hot air balloons, Antonov AN2’s, Pitts Bi-planes etc and am always up for jumping out of something “different”
On one hand yes it is just “air”, but it does add to the experience doing it in differing countries and from differing aircraft. I’ve jumped Mil MI8’s, hot air balloons, Antonov AN2’s, Pitts Bi-planes etc and am always up for jumping out of something “different”
Last edited by RMK; 17th Oct 2012 at 11:24.
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Scantech -
I'm an experienced skydiver and instructor, and also happen to work in the rotary world in the UK.
Having first hand knowledge of both, it is my opinioon that you will not find running a helicopter worth your while. Great as a one off for boogies and stuff, where people can take paying the extra jump costs (roughly double) for a couple of jumps, but just not viable long term.
Plus helicopters are a little more delicate than a caravan, rough and tumble skydivers will soon destroy paint, trim and anything they touch.
Also you will not get 8 + 1 either of those aircraft, seats or not. You need a twin, and double the price....again....
TC
You know nothing about skydiving. It's easy to tell when the airspeed is low compared to high, or even better nil (for that dead air exit we so enjoy), Plus the stall speed is difficult to predict when the cargo moves around, and leaves the aircraft!
I'm an experienced skydiver and instructor, and also happen to work in the rotary world in the UK.
Having first hand knowledge of both, it is my opinioon that you will not find running a helicopter worth your while. Great as a one off for boogies and stuff, where people can take paying the extra jump costs (roughly double) for a couple of jumps, but just not viable long term.
Plus helicopters are a little more delicate than a caravan, rough and tumble skydivers will soon destroy paint, trim and anything they touch.
Also you will not get 8 + 1 either of those aircraft, seats or not. You need a twin, and double the price....again....
TC
You know nothing about skydiving. It's easy to tell when the airspeed is low compared to high, or even better nil (for that dead air exit we so enjoy), Plus the stall speed is difficult to predict when the cargo moves around, and leaves the aircraft!
Last edited by RotaryWingB2; 17th Oct 2012 at 16:02.
TC,
How does ground speed have anything to do with the feeling when one exit the aircraft??
I think you'll find that it's the airspeed around the aircraft what the jumpers react to...!
How does ground speed have anything to do with the feeling when one exit the aircraft??
I think you'll find that it's the airspeed around the aircraft what the jumpers react to...!
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Nubian - Where did TC refer to groundspeed?
Edit - I see you mean Thomas Coupling, previous poster RotaryWingB2 also signed off 'TC' (and knows first hand the difference)...
Edit - I see you mean Thomas Coupling, previous poster RotaryWingB2 also signed off 'TC' (and knows first hand the difference)...
Last edited by SARWannabe; 17th Oct 2012 at 18:20.
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We used to take parachutists 12 or so at a time. The advantage of a larger helicopter was that the jumpers could run from the rear of the cabin, jump forwards and overtake the pilot, waving as they went past (mad so & so's)! But you wouldn't want to pay the hourly cost of a Puma.
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The point is....
if you jump from Zero Airspeed then you spend longer before reaching terminal velocity, giving a lower than g experience. (g rising from zero g to 1g at terminal velocity)
if you jump at airspeed 90kts then you are already at (or near) terminal velocity and don't feel the low-g sensation of stepping out into nil airspeed ....
Therein the appeal and value .... (apparently)
.... can't imagine why you'd parachute if you could fly a helicopter instead
if you jump at airspeed 90kts then you are already at (or near) terminal velocity and don't feel the low-g sensation of stepping out into nil airspeed ....
Therein the appeal and value .... (apparently)
.... can't imagine why you'd parachute if you could fly a helicopter instead
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.... can't imagine why you'd parachute if you could fly a helicopter instead
About Felix
Not worth the risk. I have seen on numerous occasions skydivers or their equipement coming in contact with tailplanes and elevators. Couple this with the magnetic power of the tailrotor to attract anything big or small that comes loose from the helicopter the chances of something very nasty happening are very great indeed.
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Aside from the actuall parachuting pros and cons there is very real danger aspect to parachuting from a helicopter.
I personally won't do it and have turned down several parachuting jobs because I have seen and heard to many scary story's.
Chutes being deployed in flight and going around the rotor head bringing the blades to a stop.
And I witnessed a near disaster with a 206 and jumpers on one side going before the jumpers on the other ...... Serious Cof G prob with the Heli spiralling out of control until the other jumpers let go, but they didn't want to let go because when they looked at the ground there were a set of main rotors in the way(spinning).
And of course the cost that has already been mentioned.
I realise there have been many successful jumps made from helicopters with no problems but it's not something I would want to be involved in.
I personally won't do it and have turned down several parachuting jobs because I have seen and heard to many scary story's.
Chutes being deployed in flight and going around the rotor head bringing the blades to a stop.
And I witnessed a near disaster with a 206 and jumpers on one side going before the jumpers on the other ...... Serious Cof G prob with the Heli spiralling out of control until the other jumpers let go, but they didn't want to let go because when they looked at the ground there were a set of main rotors in the way(spinning).
And of course the cost that has already been mentioned.
I realise there have been many successful jumps made from helicopters with no problems but it's not something I would want to be involved in.
Hi All.
Our dropzone currently operates a Cessna Caravan but are looking to offer speciality skydiving from a helicopter.
We are considering an EC 130 or Agusta 119.
I have some questions, any feedback would be much appreciated.
- What would leasing one of these cost. Forecasting about 400 hrs per year.
- What flight times could I expect to FL100 and FL140, weight based on 8 POB and 2 flights of fuel.
- Both these helicopters have seating for upto 8 people, with the seats removed and providing within weight and balance limits, is there anything that prohibits more than 8 POB. The ideal would be 1+8
- Any suggestions on more economical machines.
Our dropzone currently operates a Cessna Caravan but are looking to offer speciality skydiving from a helicopter.
We are considering an EC 130 or Agusta 119.
I have some questions, any feedback would be much appreciated.
- What would leasing one of these cost. Forecasting about 400 hrs per year.
- What flight times could I expect to FL100 and FL140, weight based on 8 POB and 2 flights of fuel.
- Both these helicopters have seating for upto 8 people, with the seats removed and providing within weight and balance limits, is there anything that prohibits more than 8 POB. The ideal would be 1+8
- Any suggestions on more economical machines.
You won't get 8 jumpers into an EC130 nor an A119. 6 maybe, but you'd probably have forward cg issues with the 130, and the cabin of the 119 would be full with 5 jumpers.
As already mentioned, a Bell 205 is far better suited but would have a fairly slow climb to 10 - 14,000 feet as would any machine when loaded with jumpers and fuel. Expect an average of <1,000fpm RoC, maybe 2,000fpm RoD.
Helicopter jumping is very much a one off for most parachutists just for the experience as already explained by others. It will be costly but will give a one off experience not attainable from a fixed wing, but is also an evolution that can go badly wrong if not well briefed and controlled: there are countless tales of oopsy moments here on Rotorheads that you can find with a search.
Certainly not something that I would expect to create 400 hours a year of productive revenue!