UK AAIB Oct 2012
Thread Starter
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From: OS SX2063
UK AAIB Oct 2012
HA-LFB Gazelle, 8 March 2011, Honister, Cumbria, UK
Aircraft crashed at night in poor weather, pilot was not night qualified.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...FB%2010-12.pdf
Aircraft crashed at night in poor weather, pilot was not night qualified.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...FB%2010-12.pdf
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Cornwall
EASA Oversight
If this is what is happening in the relatively strict EASA environment then I hate to think what is happening in the dark corners of those parts of the world that are almost devoid of oversight or where corruption dominates.
G.
G.
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From: Royal Leamington Spa
A number of serious airworthiness issues were identified with the helicopter during the course of the investigation. None of these issues could be directly linked to the cause of the accident, but did raise concerns regarding the way the helicopter was operated. Given the number, complexity and severity of the issues found and the fact that they are common to a number of other fatal accident investigations conducted on foreign-registered aircraft in the UK, they will be covered in detail in a separate Safety Study report.
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Boundary Layer
Tragic and so avoidable. We don't know if the pilot had any night training but its likely he didn't. The main things you learn during Night Qualification training is how much you don't know and why its better not to do it as a PPL. I recommend to all PPL's that they get some night flying experience with a qualified instructor in a controlled environment. They soon realise that its not a good idea and whilst its an awesome experience, it must never be taken lightly. If combined with bad weather, challenging terrain and a lack of preparation, its a recipe for an AAIB bulletin.
Take heed guys, learn from this tragedy, don't let something similar happen to you.
Take heed guys, learn from this tragedy, don't let something similar happen to you.
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From: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Disagree on the last comment. Night flying is not too dangerous for a ppl. If they do it properly of course.
This chap involved was a larger than life character and a huge thread was on this very site after the accident. A lot of people reading the shocking revelations would say they are not actually shocked. Cowboy stuff like this will ALWAYS catch up on you........ Eventually. Luckily he didnt take a pax with him.
This chap involved was a larger than life character and a huge thread was on this very site after the accident. A lot of people reading the shocking revelations would say they are not actually shocked. Cowboy stuff like this will ALWAYS catch up on you........ Eventually. Luckily he didnt take a pax with him.
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Boundary Layer
jayteeto
I agree whole heartedly that a cowboy attitude will eventually catch people out and that emphasises my point that unless you are properly trained, you don't realise what you don't know.
Incidentally, I did not say that night flying is too dangerous for a PPL, I said that training usually highlights why it generally is not a good idea. Single engine at night tends get more uncomfortable the more you do it.
I agree whole heartedly that a cowboy attitude will eventually catch people out and that emphasises my point that unless you are properly trained, you don't realise what you don't know.
Incidentally, I did not say that night flying is too dangerous for a PPL, I said that training usually highlights why it generally is not a good idea. Single engine at night tends get more uncomfortable the more you do it.
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From: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
True, I never really trusted the flare we fitted to the Gazelle. One of our QHIs got permission to do a test firing and found it lit up very well........... 200 yards behind the helicopter!
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From: UK
JT,
For SE, earlier "night kits" were as per military: flares.
Subsequently, lots of night kits are extra lights, either broad beam or steerable.
Flares are one-shot. Little or no opportunity to try them out in civi-land. The lights have a wider range of uses (e.g. precautionary landings). My experience is that they only illuminate the ground pretty late in the descent.
For SE, earlier "night kits" were as per military: flares.
Subsequently, lots of night kits are extra lights, either broad beam or steerable.
Flares are one-shot. Little or no opportunity to try them out in civi-land. The lights have a wider range of uses (e.g. precautionary landings). My experience is that they only illuminate the ground pretty late in the descent.
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From: Cornwall
Night Qualifications
The main difficulty with night qualifications is that you have to be careful in what you accept as representing a night environment. A airport training circuit is not likely to be acceptable if it is well lit on a moonlit night with a city in the background. I would think that a Lake District valley on a dark night is about as tough as it gets overland.
G
G
Last edited by Geoffersincornwall; 12th October 2012 at 18:06.
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From: UK Scotland
I remember when doing night training as a PPL out of Edinburgh airport and my instructor (rightly in my opinion) told me the qualification was not for heading over to the west of Scotland on a very dark night but more as an aid on a good moonlit night for getting back to the airport if a little bit late.
R
R
Avoid imitations
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
If sufficient visual references are available to determine aircraft attitude and position then night VFR is perfectly OK, subject to suitable training and qualification(and always has been, despite the previously obtuse wording of the UK rules, now very recently changed to allow night VFR per se).
However, without those visual references, it's an IMC flight, there are no two ways about it. Flying in any hilly area such as the Lake District is a potentially lethal place to find oneself in inadvertent IMC, especially on a windy, gusty night, as appears to have been the case here.
But deliberately putting oneself in a position where one has no training or qualifications for night flying, let alone for IMC flight, then taking off where the former is a certainty and the latter quite likely, is naivety at best and more like gross stupidity.
Also taking into account the appalling disregard of proper and legal standards of airworthiness and maintenance, regrettably this accident appears not to have been a case of "if", but "when".
I hate accidents like these because it makes Joe Public regard all helicopters as dangerous things. It's actually what some people do with them, or try to do with them, that's dangerous.
However, without those visual references, it's an IMC flight, there are no two ways about it. Flying in any hilly area such as the Lake District is a potentially lethal place to find oneself in inadvertent IMC, especially on a windy, gusty night, as appears to have been the case here.
But deliberately putting oneself in a position where one has no training or qualifications for night flying, let alone for IMC flight, then taking off where the former is a certainty and the latter quite likely, is naivety at best and more like gross stupidity.
Also taking into account the appalling disregard of proper and legal standards of airworthiness and maintenance, regrettably this accident appears not to have been a case of "if", but "when".
I hate accidents like these because it makes Joe Public regard all helicopters as dangerous things. It's actually what some people do with them, or try to do with them, that's dangerous.
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From: UK
For me the other aspect is that he had his car where his helicopter was. Putting it bluntly, he died to save himself a few minutes and/or prove that he could fly in such conditions.
I think we all can warm to risk-takers in business and enterprise. Its just that the consequences of a business failure are bankruptcy: the consequences of dangerous flying are much more serious than that. Someone used to taking risks in business needs to re-calibrate for flying decisions.
I think we all can warm to risk-takers in business and enterprise. Its just that the consequences of a business failure are bankruptcy: the consequences of dangerous flying are much more serious than that. Someone used to taking risks in business needs to re-calibrate for flying decisions.
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From: UK
Surprised he didn't nip to Halfords for a set of spot lights to bolt on his bull bar, they would have been as legal as most of the parts on his machine