407 night crash
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407 night crash
As a new rotorhead (but experienced planker), I am trying to understand the mindset of the pilot in this accident, who had nearly 30,000 hrs, mostly (apparently) in helicopters, and had recently won a career "safe flying" award.
Any insight from the veterans would be much appreciated.
"Bill was not just a pilot, but one of my best friends" | TriCities.com
Top Pilots Rack Up Hours Flying Safely | Aviation International News
ERA12FA527
Thanks,
DR
Any insight from the veterans would be much appreciated.
"Bill was not just a pilot, but one of my best friends" | TriCities.com
Top Pilots Rack Up Hours Flying Safely | Aviation International News
He attributes his long safety record to: “Military training and being fortunate enough to have had experienced instructors, both military and civilian, and, hopefully, common sense.”
The helicopter then departed without the landing light on and turned toward the lake, descended down an embankment, and made a turn over the lake. The helicopter traveled approximately 150 yards when the bottom skids collided with the lake. The helicopter nosed over and made a loud splash.
DR
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What in interesting case. It brings home to everyone that we all make mistakes, the mind (if it is human error) is a funny organ.
Not putting the landing light on for a night reversionary departure is strange, I have done it twice, and almost been caught out with disorientation.
I imagine there are many different ideas as to how this happened.
What a shame.
Not putting the landing light on for a night reversionary departure is strange, I have done it twice, and almost been caught out with disorientation.
I imagine there are many different ideas as to how this happened.
What a shame.
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I learnt a basic principle while in the military:
During night flying, do it higher/steeper than normal (Hover/Take-Off/Landings), and do it slower....
Was surprised how many civil pilots are NOT really able to do proper night flying (as they are trying to do everything as they are doing it during daylight...).....
During night flying, do it higher/steeper than normal (Hover/Take-Off/Landings), and do it slower....
Was surprised how many civil pilots are NOT really able to do proper night flying (as they are trying to do everything as they are doing it during daylight...).....
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Was surprised how many civil pilots are NOT really able to do proper night flying (as they are trying to do everything as they are doing it during daylight...).....
Starnes was a military pilot for 39 years, flying “all helicopters–Bell 205 Hueys, Bell AH-1G/F Cobra gunships, Hughes LOH6s and Bell 206s."
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There may be situations in which it is better to keep the landing light off. E.g when taking off from snow-covered ground at night, you probably dont want to switch on the landing light as it may blind you.
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Jymil,
I agree that you would tailor the use of the light to suit the environment. But even in snow/dust, it helps if you need to "reject" and make your way back down......
A towering take off, using markers, then instruments once blind to the marker would be the safest in that situation IMHO.
Was there and environmental factor in this occurrence?
I agree that you would tailor the use of the light to suit the environment. But even in snow/dust, it helps if you need to "reject" and make your way back down......
A towering take off, using markers, then instruments once blind to the marker would be the safest in that situation IMHO.
Was there and environmental factor in this occurrence?
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Was there and environmental factor in this occurrence?
This was on August 24, in Virginia, US, so no snow, and very likely no dust.
DR
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Very strange series of events. It would be interesting to see if there was a CVR/FDR element.......the only way I think we would get an insight into the events.
The thing that bothers me is that it sounds just like a typical accident of a low-time pilot, esp. one with limited night experience. Yet, this guy had tons of experience, much of it military, per the above links.
The thing that comes to my mind, is that perhaps he had too much experience, to the point where he might have felt invincible, or was at least very complacent.
I know that with my limited hours I'd be climbing vertically out of any "black hole", with or without landing lights -- just the fear of invisible wires would do it for me. Does one lose that fear factor over time, to the point of becoming dangerous?
I am not saying this guy did anything wrong, and it may turn out there was some mechanical or medical issue yet to be discovered, but the generic question remains.
DR
Last edited by Dynamic Roller; 16th Sep 2012 at 19:14.
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Landind light not a factor- Over water flying = No depth perception. A little distraction in the cocpit, adjusting radio,or other thing. splash, How was his health? Nite vision is a fickle thing.
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I agree snow was surely not a factor here, I just wanted to point out not using the landing light is not always a bad idea. You could also argue switching off the landing light is helping with night adaptation provided there is still some remaining source of light available (e.g. moonlight) which allows for a safe takeoff. On the other hand, if it is pitch-black, then I'd also want as much light as possible.
The whole story is indeed strange, it sounds a bit like CFIT to me.
The whole story is indeed strange, it sounds a bit like CFIT to me.
"Just a pilot"
Don't know what happened in this event.
Being low over a large body of water is always dangerous due to depth perception issues. Calm water especially so.
I wonder at the reported lack of landing light on departure, could that distraction in identifying and resolving the issue have been a contributing factor? Our standard fit includes two pilot direct-able search lights, 3 other light sources (and aided night vision), so switches, aiming and other lights can be a resource management issue.
There are times when lack of landing lights is not the disadvantage it might seem. Consider that in full dark accommodated eye the best technique is to "look around" what you really want to see, foveal vision doesn't work well in low light. The glare of a spot/search/landing light can obscure what's outside the bright area.
Being low over a large body of water is always dangerous due to depth perception issues. Calm water especially so.
I wonder at the reported lack of landing light on departure, could that distraction in identifying and resolving the issue have been a contributing factor? Our standard fit includes two pilot direct-able search lights, 3 other light sources (and aided night vision), so switches, aiming and other lights can be a resource management issue.
There are times when lack of landing lights is not the disadvantage it might seem. Consider that in full dark accommodated eye the best technique is to "look around" what you really want to see, foveal vision doesn't work well in low light. The glare of a spot/search/landing light can obscure what's outside the bright area.
According to the NTSB preliminary report it seems as if he never really climbed out of the basin.
[URL="https://maps.google.com/maps?q=South+Holston+Lake+virginia&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF-8&ei=fnJXUN_eDKPv0gG4moBg&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAg"[/URL]
I wonder how much of the night time this guy racked up was unaided, and if so he ought to have known better.
I see a couple of Golf and Country clubs around the lake.
22:30, had it been a long day? Pt.91 wishful thinking corporate VFR only 407...
I know, I know, I am a mean bastard...
[URL="https://maps.google.com/maps?q=South+Holston+Lake+virginia&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF-8&ei=fnJXUN_eDKPv0gG4moBg&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAg"[/URL]
I wonder how much of the night time this guy racked up was unaided, and if so he ought to have known better.
I see a couple of Golf and Country clubs around the lake.
22:30, had it been a long day? Pt.91 wishful thinking corporate VFR only 407...
I know, I know, I am a mean bastard...
Last edited by tottigol; 17th Sep 2012 at 19:07.
