Which machine should we buy?
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Which machine should we buy?
Hi all ..
I'm a low time heli pilot and my 200 hours has all been on 22's and 44's. I part own a 44 and havent flown anything else other than Robbies so I lack perspective.
Outside of NZ where I live, a mate and I are building our 3rd resort in an island group in the Pacific and when it opens we will have enough customers to start a wee airline. All three resorts are almost in a direct line from each other and sit between 28 and 49 nm from the mainland. Choppers dont currently feature on the landscape in the local market as the cost is prohibitively high for most holidaying couples given the alternative of a boat ride or a sea plane , however there is a game changing opportunity .... Build a runway on the new resort which is in middle of the three islands , hub customers to that point , by a couple of 6-8 seater cessna's , do a luggage run by boat once a day to our other 2 resorts and fly customers by chopper to the other 2 resorts from the hub . The flights to the resorts north and south of the hub point would be short, approx 6 and 9 mins respectively . So what chopper to buy and why?
Here's the issues ... The flights are short most flights will be 5-10 mins and all over water. We would build a hangar on the middle island and base the choppers there so they are going to be in a maritime environment. Potential for lots of short scenics...island hoping etc so its feasible there could be 10-20 movements a day. The main purpose is simply ferrying people so luggage and weight capacity isnt a huge issue , nothwithstand that having power baggage and lifting capacity may offer future benefits. We would really need to buy two machines to allow for maintenance outages etc so instinctvely something tells me its better to buy two identical machines? The climate is hot and humid.
Would you trust the blades and rust protection flying over water in a commercial environment with a 44 clipper or would you go for a bigger machine? Is pertol or turbine the way to go? From a business perspective are you better off with a small machine so for couples want to island hop sight see etc the cost is reasonable and thus its easy to sell seats , or is the cost per seat actually better on a a larger machine like an squirell. Is one engine or two better when weighing up safety vs economics ? Any advice greatly appreciated
I'm a low time heli pilot and my 200 hours has all been on 22's and 44's. I part own a 44 and havent flown anything else other than Robbies so I lack perspective.
Outside of NZ where I live, a mate and I are building our 3rd resort in an island group in the Pacific and when it opens we will have enough customers to start a wee airline. All three resorts are almost in a direct line from each other and sit between 28 and 49 nm from the mainland. Choppers dont currently feature on the landscape in the local market as the cost is prohibitively high for most holidaying couples given the alternative of a boat ride or a sea plane , however there is a game changing opportunity .... Build a runway on the new resort which is in middle of the three islands , hub customers to that point , by a couple of 6-8 seater cessna's , do a luggage run by boat once a day to our other 2 resorts and fly customers by chopper to the other 2 resorts from the hub . The flights to the resorts north and south of the hub point would be short, approx 6 and 9 mins respectively . So what chopper to buy and why?
Here's the issues ... The flights are short most flights will be 5-10 mins and all over water. We would build a hangar on the middle island and base the choppers there so they are going to be in a maritime environment. Potential for lots of short scenics...island hoping etc so its feasible there could be 10-20 movements a day. The main purpose is simply ferrying people so luggage and weight capacity isnt a huge issue , nothwithstand that having power baggage and lifting capacity may offer future benefits. We would really need to buy two machines to allow for maintenance outages etc so instinctvely something tells me its better to buy two identical machines? The climate is hot and humid.
Would you trust the blades and rust protection flying over water in a commercial environment with a 44 clipper or would you go for a bigger machine? Is pertol or turbine the way to go? From a business perspective are you better off with a small machine so for couples want to island hop sight see etc the cost is reasonable and thus its easy to sell seats , or is the cost per seat actually better on a a larger machine like an squirell. Is one engine or two better when weighing up safety vs economics ? Any advice greatly appreciated
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I agree with GG, you will need a CP to set you up and manage it for you, listen to him/her.
That's not want you want, do here goes...
If it was me I would use an R44 clipper to cover two pax scenics and shuttles and an AS350 for larger loads and other airwork. It gives the junior pilot something to progress to and a nice machine for you to fly as well. Let's face it, you are probably going to do a lot the flying eventually.
Go for a ride in an AS350 and see what you think. Talk to an engineer about maintenance/running costs of each.
Matching aircraft is nice, but if you want to grow plan for it!
Good luck, I hope it works out.
That's not want you want, do here goes...
If it was me I would use an R44 clipper to cover two pax scenics and shuttles and an AS350 for larger loads and other airwork. It gives the junior pilot something to progress to and a nice machine for you to fly as well. Let's face it, you are probably going to do a lot the flying eventually.
Go for a ride in an AS350 and see what you think. Talk to an engineer about maintenance/running costs of each.
Matching aircraft is nice, but if you want to grow plan for it!
Good luck, I hope it works out.
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Although i agree with CY in the benefit of a smaller and larger aircraft, i would suggest that you use the one type of fuel. Then you don't have to worry about getting both types of fuel onto the Island.
You could think about a reconditioned B206 and as CY suggested a AS350 for the bigger groups and other aerial work.
However the best thing to do is get an expert in and get some pro advice!
NiBs.
You could think about a reconditioned B206 and as CY suggested a AS350 for the bigger groups and other aerial work.
However the best thing to do is get an expert in and get some pro advice!
NiBs.
Agusta Koala, Bell L-4 , Bell 407, all spring to mind.
As the outlying islands are 9-12 miles from the center island....even a good JetRanger would work despite being limited to 3-4 passengers.
If you use the helicopter to shuttle to the island....it will be hard to compete with an airplane for the mainland/island shuttle....as airplanes are a lot cheaper to operate.
Any bigger then the thing gets too expensive.
I would go Turbine powered....no matter what!
As the outlying islands are 9-12 miles from the center island....even a good JetRanger would work despite being limited to 3-4 passengers.
If you use the helicopter to shuttle to the island....it will be hard to compete with an airplane for the mainland/island shuttle....as airplanes are a lot cheaper to operate.
Any bigger then the thing gets too expensive.
I would go Turbine powered....no matter what!
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Not an expert, just a driver.
But to me it looks suspiciously like a solution (helicopter) looking for a problem to solve.
FW are almost always the cheaper option, so why use a helicopter? And is a boat ride not a more economically viable option than a short helicopter ride?
As has been said before, get an expert to look at it. First and foremost to prevent you from falling into the trap of getting helicopters when the market is not really there.
To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail..but it could be an expensive mistake.
But to me it looks suspiciously like a solution (helicopter) looking for a problem to solve.
FW are almost always the cheaper option, so why use a helicopter? And is a boat ride not a more economically viable option than a short helicopter ride?
As has been said before, get an expert to look at it. First and foremost to prevent you from falling into the trap of getting helicopters when the market is not really there.
To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail..but it could be an expensive mistake.
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I would suggest you to try an Ec130B4, perfect for sight seeing and short ferry flight, enough luggage place on board, low DMC...
Maybe you just start with a 6 months, or one year dry or wet lease and then you decide....or lease +purchase deal...but as Goodgrief said, use a pro for it....
Maybe you just start with a 6 months, or one year dry or wet lease and then you decide....or lease +purchase deal...but as Goodgrief said, use a pro for it....
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If you wish to consider this as a business proposition (rather than an opportunity to have tax deductible helicopters) then I suggest you consider this from the other end:
How many punters will want to fly the routes you plan?
What is the sort of price they will be prepared to pay?
What other flying than inter-island punter shuttles could you develop?
On that basis, you will be able to get some idea of the revenue you might be able to generate. That would tell you whether the business could afford any helicopter.
As others have said (sadly) what you propose to do does not actually require a helicopter at all. Since other things can do it cheaper, there does not seem to be a business case.
How many punters will want to fly the routes you plan?
What is the sort of price they will be prepared to pay?
What other flying than inter-island punter shuttles could you develop?
On that basis, you will be able to get some idea of the revenue you might be able to generate. That would tell you whether the business could afford any helicopter.
As others have said (sadly) what you propose to do does not actually require a helicopter at all. Since other things can do it cheaper, there does not seem to be a business case.
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I read your post and realized that it represented what I did for a long time.
Having owned and run an operation from scratch for 20+ years involving light singles to medium twins in a tropical island environment, I would have to say that your first point of reference might be someone who has actually done it.
That means visiting with or consulting (preferably through contacts) people who have either owned such an operation and therefore experienced the numerous challenges, or someone who has intimate knowledge of running such an operation. It certainly requires a lot of planning and thought.
A consulting 'pro' might have notions but unless they've actually been involved over a period of time (paying the bills, negotiating with multi jurisdictional/regulatory/planning/customs/people, managing logistical support, identifying personnel that will actually fit your organization, selecting aircraft that will be most suited to the type of operation/environment/people available, considering other operational/competitive challenges) etc then they might not be able to be objective/practical for your long term successs. Even then operational financial success (it may even be considered a cost of doing business in support of hotel operations) for any operator in this industry is not assured by any stretch.
Without knowing a lot more detail, I could not even begin to offer anything but the most cursory thoughts. I would urge you to consider some of the things that I mentioned above sooner rather than later, more than just what aircraft to buy.
Having owned and run an operation from scratch for 20+ years involving light singles to medium twins in a tropical island environment, I would have to say that your first point of reference might be someone who has actually done it.
That means visiting with or consulting (preferably through contacts) people who have either owned such an operation and therefore experienced the numerous challenges, or someone who has intimate knowledge of running such an operation. It certainly requires a lot of planning and thought.
A consulting 'pro' might have notions but unless they've actually been involved over a period of time (paying the bills, negotiating with multi jurisdictional/regulatory/planning/customs/people, managing logistical support, identifying personnel that will actually fit your organization, selecting aircraft that will be most suited to the type of operation/environment/people available, considering other operational/competitive challenges) etc then they might not be able to be objective/practical for your long term successs. Even then operational financial success (it may even be considered a cost of doing business in support of hotel operations) for any operator in this industry is not assured by any stretch.
Without knowing a lot more detail, I could not even begin to offer anything but the most cursory thoughts. I would urge you to consider some of the things that I mentioned above sooner rather than later, more than just what aircraft to buy.
