Financing the purchase of a robinson r22 (in the UK)
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 10
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From: uk
Financing the purchase of a robinson r22 (in the UK)
Can anybody help?
I'm newly registered on this forum, but been reading it for about 6 months. I started flying lessons last October (31 lessons so far). I'm based in England and looking to purchase a used R22 Beta or Beta II. I definately want to own my own machine and figure it's a good idea to buy one now, finish my training and get my licence on it. However, funding one is proving to be a challenge.
I've seen many advertised that have, say, 4-5 years of life left on them, anywhere from 600-1000 hours remaining and priced anywhere from £70,000 to £85,000. I've also seen several that have just had full 2200 hour rebuilds and priced anywhere between £110,000 to £120,000, so there are lots of choices. I couldnt stretch to anything over £100,000 due to the deposit requirement.
Am looking for pointers for obtaining finance on one. I have tried the biggest (Lombard) but they wont finance anything sub £125,000. Close Aviation want really high deposits and really short terms (24-months). I don't know of any other lender. My own bank don't touch aviation finance and my IFA has tried dozens of lenders in his contact book and none of them would finance aircraft.
Has anybody recently bought one (with finance) and can point me in the right direction to a lender that would be willing to finance a machine with 4-5 years left?
Or any other advice about this?
Thanks in advance
I'm newly registered on this forum, but been reading it for about 6 months. I started flying lessons last October (31 lessons so far). I'm based in England and looking to purchase a used R22 Beta or Beta II. I definately want to own my own machine and figure it's a good idea to buy one now, finish my training and get my licence on it. However, funding one is proving to be a challenge.
I've seen many advertised that have, say, 4-5 years of life left on them, anywhere from 600-1000 hours remaining and priced anywhere from £70,000 to £85,000. I've also seen several that have just had full 2200 hour rebuilds and priced anywhere between £110,000 to £120,000, so there are lots of choices. I couldnt stretch to anything over £100,000 due to the deposit requirement.
Am looking for pointers for obtaining finance on one. I have tried the biggest (Lombard) but they wont finance anything sub £125,000. Close Aviation want really high deposits and really short terms (24-months). I don't know of any other lender. My own bank don't touch aviation finance and my IFA has tried dozens of lenders in his contact book and none of them would finance aircraft.
Has anybody recently bought one (with finance) and can point me in the right direction to a lender that would be willing to finance a machine with 4-5 years left?
Or any other advice about this?
Thanks in advance
Guest
Posts: n/a
Where are you based ? A good rule of thumb is that you need to be putting between two and three hundred hours on an R22 per year in order to avoid hitting calendar maintenance. That's around four hours a week which is a lot of flying in a 22. You might find that joint venturing with another pilot or a training operator would be a more attractive deal.
If you're determined to go it alone, then maybe consider borrowing the money against something else, eg. your house. Just don't tell them it's to buy a helicopter !
Remember the three 'F's though, and consider that if banks are reluctant to lend, they may be telling you something ! Owners tell me there are two great days involved in owning a helicopter, the day you buy it and the day you sell it.
Hope that's useful.
If you're determined to go it alone, then maybe consider borrowing the money against something else, eg. your house. Just don't tell them it's to buy a helicopter !
Remember the three 'F's though, and consider that if banks are reluctant to lend, they may be telling you something ! Owners tell me there are two great days involved in owning a helicopter, the day you buy it and the day you sell it.
Hope that's useful.
Last edited by puntosaurus; 9th June 2012 at 02:24.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 700
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From: 5 nM S of TNT, UK
If you send me your e mail address, I will send you a financial analysis of my first 5years of owning an R22. I bought it with 5 years left on it and ran it to the end of its calendar life. By a lot of jiggling I also managed to finish with only about 20 hours left on it. I am now 18 months into my second one, a zero timed rebuild this time.
Best thing I ever did!
Best thing I ever did!
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,365
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From: UK
You really need to go into this very carefully, if you are not going to get some very unwelcome (and expensive) surprises. Getting the finance would be the least of your problems.
In the absence of previous experience, I suggest you should sit down and work through some spreadsheets where you set out all the costs of ownership, and a realistic view of how much flying you will do.
In practice, you will need someone well versed in the lunacy of helicopter ownership to help you. A place to start would be with one of your local helicopter sales outfits, but bear in mind their goal: the clue is in the name.
My bet is that you will take no notice of this post. But at least I tried.
Do take up Muffin's offer, by the way.
In the absence of previous experience, I suggest you should sit down and work through some spreadsheets where you set out all the costs of ownership, and a realistic view of how much flying you will do.
In practice, you will need someone well versed in the lunacy of helicopter ownership to help you. A place to start would be with one of your local helicopter sales outfits, but bear in mind their goal: the clue is in the name.
My bet is that you will take no notice of this post. But at least I tried.
Do take up Muffin's offer, by the way.
Last edited by Helinut; 9th June 2012 at 07:42.
Joined: Jan 2003
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,361
Likes: 1
From: Near the bottom
You could try Singers Asset Finance which, I understand, recently got back into aviation so may offer more flexible terms, but tread carefully!! Buying a helicopter is the easy bit; selling one is much more difficult, especially if it's a distressed sale because you couldn't afford the maintenance/running costs. You need to always be prepared to fund those inevitable 'unscheduled maintenance' items which, even on a 22, can easily run into many £000s. Why not try a syndicate? Or first negotiate a leaseback deal with a school (tread even more carefully!)? That might influence your buying criteria. Whatever you do, I hope it works out - let us know!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: uk
Thanks guys for all your input so far.
Big thanks to 'muffin' for the spreadsheet - really enlightening about true ownership costs (not quite what Robinson have you believe it seems).
Parasite drag, I got your PM - for some reason, I can only have 2 PM's in the inbox before it's 100% full, so I can't even reply to your PM without first deleting your message as it tries to save my reply into the "sent" folder?? I'll try to figure that out later when I get home from work. In the meantime, you do make a great point and I'll look on ebay again tonight (lovely machine by the way!)
Thanks again to all who responded.
Big thanks to 'muffin' for the spreadsheet - really enlightening about true ownership costs (not quite what Robinson have you believe it seems).
Parasite drag, I got your PM - for some reason, I can only have 2 PM's in the inbox before it's 100% full, so I can't even reply to your PM without first deleting your message as it tries to save my reply into the "sent" folder?? I'll try to figure that out later when I get home from work. In the meantime, you do make a great point and I'll look on ebay again tonight (lovely machine by the way!)
Thanks again to all who responded.
