GOM PHI Crash May 2012
"Just a pilot"
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 633
Likes: 8
From: Jefferson GA USA
Epiphany,
The idea that regulations, ICAO or otherwise, would have changed anything in this accident is interesting. I'm assuming a lot when I guess what happened here, but if the accident aircraft did indeed hit the rig over the production platform as he tried to land... I have to ask if a natural amount of apprehension of a potentially lethal hazard wasn't sufficient, why would a rule be more effective in preventing the attempt? My decision flow chart starts with personal survival, then preventing damage, then complying with laws, and doing the job is last.
No, I don't think the GoM operators "laugh as loud at each new fatality?" as they might chuckle at the idea that rules against mistakes are effective.
The idea that regulations, ICAO or otherwise, would have changed anything in this accident is interesting. I'm assuming a lot when I guess what happened here, but if the accident aircraft did indeed hit the rig over the production platform as he tried to land... I have to ask if a natural amount of apprehension of a potentially lethal hazard wasn't sufficient, why would a rule be more effective in preventing the attempt? My decision flow chart starts with personal survival, then preventing damage, then complying with laws, and doing the job is last.
No, I don't think the GoM operators "laugh as loud at each new fatality?" as they might chuckle at the idea that rules against mistakes are effective.
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
A Gold Star to Devil 49....and move to the head of the class!
I would love to see some photos of the crash site....to get an idea of just what the fellow was confronted with as he made his decision to land.
I would love to see some photos of the crash site....to get an idea of just what the fellow was confronted with as he made his decision to land.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
From: USA
A poster remarks that his decision tree begins with "personal survival," and someone supposedly representing the management of a major oil company says quite offensively:
Has everyone else ceased to take this character seriously? I'm a slow learner, but catching on quickly now.
Thats fairly unusual in the GOM.
Joined: Feb 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 448
Likes: 7
From: Sometimes here, sometimes there
Has everyone else ceased to take this character seriously? I'm a slow learner, but catching on quickly now
One day he might actually find something useful to do in his retirement years - please
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
I find making him a permanent fixture on my "Ignore" list saves a lot of aggravation.....and the threads far more enjoyable to read. I wonder if enough people put him on the ignore list he garners enough pprune points to achieve a sanction?
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 244
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From: Ban Don Ling
Aw come on guys, he brightens up the threads with nonsensical rants which we would love to say in one way or another to the aviation auditors but never do - he has to be an ex-pilot/engineer from one of the two large operators .... just taking the pith for heaven´s sake. Leave him be! Don´t bite!
Last edited by tistisnot; 8th June 2012 at 03:34.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 670
Likes: 0
From: Beside the seaside
Devil - I did not state that rules prevent accidents but a correct attitude to rules certainly make for a safer pilot. Laughing at rules just because they are rules indicates a certain 'cowboy' attitude to me. No matter what your views on GOM operations are the fact remains that the accident rate is very high and seems to be caused by poor decision making and operational procedures i.e not observing rules.
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
Tis,
It that were but true.....he would not be carrying on in the true Shell tradition as he does. He would find a way to pass his message that would poke the Shellies....and not the rest of us.
It that were but true.....he would not be carrying on in the true Shell tradition as he does. He would find a way to pass his message that would poke the Shellies....and not the rest of us.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
From: retirementland
they might chuckle at the idea that rules against mistakes are effective.
The trouble with the GOM is that a cowboy culture remains. That explains small helidecks, failure to account for engine loss etc.
"Just a pilot"
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 633
Likes: 8
From: Jefferson GA USA
Hyperbole but "Befehl ist Befehl" is also a 'correct attitude to rules'. (I think they hung the individual that made those words famous.)
Rules are a necessary part of structure, but they are what they are- guidelines, not expected to cover every contingency. That's why the PIC has expressed authority and responsibility to deviate in the event of an emergency to the extent necessary. Rationally, that doesn't mean the rules are suspended if an emergency arises. It means the responsible authority recognizes the limitations of rulemaking to cover every situation possible. Poor decision making isn't necessarily anti-authoritarian, it's usually ignorance or the result of tunnel vision, neither of which are resolved by regulation.
Opining that "the (GoM) accident rate is very high and seems to be caused by poor decision making and operational procedures i.e not observing rules." is the purest speculation and irrelevant to this accident discussion, unless you believe that this pilot was instructed and expected to do exactly what was apparently attempted- landing under the rig. I would be very surprised to learn that that was true, as I know for a fact that a pilot was fired for doing this very thing, landing under a rig. It was an astounding incident then and would be now.
Rules are a necessary part of structure, but they are what they are- guidelines, not expected to cover every contingency. That's why the PIC has expressed authority and responsibility to deviate in the event of an emergency to the extent necessary. Rationally, that doesn't mean the rules are suspended if an emergency arises. It means the responsible authority recognizes the limitations of rulemaking to cover every situation possible. Poor decision making isn't necessarily anti-authoritarian, it's usually ignorance or the result of tunnel vision, neither of which are resolved by regulation.
Opining that "the (GoM) accident rate is very high and seems to be caused by poor decision making and operational procedures i.e not observing rules." is the purest speculation and irrelevant to this accident discussion, unless you believe that this pilot was instructed and expected to do exactly what was apparently attempted- landing under the rig. I would be very surprised to learn that that was true, as I know for a fact that a pilot was fired for doing this very thing, landing under a rig. It was an astounding incident then and would be now.
Last edited by Devil 49; 9th June 2012 at 04:13.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 670
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From: Beside the seaside
Opining that "the (GoM) accident rate is very high and seems to be caused by poor decision making and operational procedures i.e not observing rules." is the purest speculation and irrelevant to this accident discussion,
