North Sea Helicopter ditching 10th May 2012
That's fair; I had heard that one consideration might be S-92 to Scatsta followed by fixed-wing to Abz. Doubtless, minds greater than mine are at work with a solution. Thank you.
A A
That is a good question and one I would be asking of my company if I were an offshore safety rep. The short answer is no, we are not using it.
The system you are referring to is AAD (advanced anomaly detection) and I think it is a good system, designed to sit on top of existing HUMS systems and analyse their outputs looking for anomalies that don't necessarily breach set thresholds. I don't know why it has not been adopted, possibly commercial reasons?
I do know that Eurocopter are working on their own such system which should be out this year for the M'ARMS aircraft (225 and 155) which will be a start.
HC
That is a good question and one I would be asking of my company if I were an offshore safety rep. The short answer is no, we are not using it.
The system you are referring to is AAD (advanced anomaly detection) and I think it is a good system, designed to sit on top of existing HUMS systems and analyse their outputs looking for anomalies that don't necessarily breach set thresholds. I don't know why it has not been adopted, possibly commercial reasons?
I do know that Eurocopter are working on their own such system which should be out this year for the M'ARMS aircraft (225 and 155) which will be a start.
HC
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Gearbox inspection frequency
Had a discussion offshore about the current issues with the helicopters. A question was raised about how ofted the gearboxes are opened up and the gears actually close visual inspected and NDT inspected for signs of fatigue or damage etc?
A person stated that the gearboxes had to be sent back to manufacturer for this to be carried out - I personally think all of the Aberdeen based operators surely would use their own in house mechanics & inspectors to do this, unless there was a requirement for a metallurgical inspection etc.
Any information is very much appreciated.
Thanks
A person stated that the gearboxes had to be sent back to manufacturer for this to be carried out - I personally think all of the Aberdeen based operators surely would use their own in house mechanics & inspectors to do this, unless there was a requirement for a metallurgical inspection etc.
Any information is very much appreciated.
Thanks
It sounds like some of the research NASA has been conducting into FDM. Rather than set arbitrary limits, why not look at historical data and define what is normal. Then look at the 1 and 2 sigmas etc to set the triggers. That way you are truly looking at deviations from the norm.
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I think also the speed of response of the support teams is crucial to good diagnosis of a problem.
When we used to see gradual increases in vibe levels we were never quite so alarmed as we were when we saw a step change in levels, however step changes were in a vast majority of cases due to a change of sensor or cable etc, and so by the time that question has been answered, the aircraft may have done several more flights.
The AAD system was always designed to support HUMS data integrity, but of course too many had their own agendas and commercial reasons for not integrating it. The big question was of course data ownership, and a manufacturer such as Meggitt were never going to willingly hand over data to Smiths which could be used to aid their HUMS systems development.
Sikileaks - The benefit of one global system and information sharing. Up in Aberdeen at one time the operators HUMS Managers were looking after anything up to 3 different HUMS systems. Great name by the way, I am nominating you for the Moniker of The year award!!
When we used to see gradual increases in vibe levels we were never quite so alarmed as we were when we saw a step change in levels, however step changes were in a vast majority of cases due to a change of sensor or cable etc, and so by the time that question has been answered, the aircraft may have done several more flights.
The AAD system was always designed to support HUMS data integrity, but of course too many had their own agendas and commercial reasons for not integrating it. The big question was of course data ownership, and a manufacturer such as Meggitt were never going to willingly hand over data to Smiths which could be used to aid their HUMS systems development.
Sikileaks - The benefit of one global system and information sharing. Up in Aberdeen at one time the operators HUMS Managers were looking after anything up to 3 different HUMS systems. Great name by the way, I am nominating you for the Moniker of The year award!!
Last edited by Alloa Akbar; 14th May 2012 at 13:50.
For the crew: Hand Salute!
For HC: thanks for your HUMS insights.
Aloha, for your HUMS points as well.
For sikileaks: thanks for that insight as well.
For HC: thanks for your HUMS insights.
Aloha, for your HUMS points as well.
For sikileaks: thanks for that insight as well.
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Once again the oil and gas industry lead the way
http://www.oilandgasuk.co.uk/downloa...ndy_Dollin.pdf
And well done to the crew for compliantly following the flight manual.
http://www.oilandgasuk.co.uk/downloa...ndy_Dollin.pdf
And well done to the crew for compliantly following the flight manual.
Last edited by Shell Management; 14th May 2012 at 18:59.
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TrisG
An operator can change the major modules of the gearbox on the "line" (i.e in a normal level maintenance facility as at Aberdeen), but you cannot disassemble the gearbox and inspect every component as you describe, for good reason however.
If you were to visit a gearbox overhaul facility you would be amazed at how sterile the environment is – it’s a temperature / humidity controlled "white coat and gloves" zone which is forensically clean. You would not wish to take a gearbox apart in anything other than that environment because in so doing, you introduce way more risk than the benefit from completing an inspection. All of the Aberdeen operators use specialist facilities to complete this work, two of them use Eurocopter.
The gearboxes and their components are managed closely, and the component “lives” (how many hours the components can operate for before inspection or retirement) are set at very conservative levels. The TBO (time between overhaul) for the EC225 main transmission is 2000 flight hours and given the average aircraft utilisation in Aberdeen , that’s an overhaul, and inspections just like the ones you describe, just about every year.
Hope that gives you some comfort.
Scots.
If you were to visit a gearbox overhaul facility you would be amazed at how sterile the environment is – it’s a temperature / humidity controlled "white coat and gloves" zone which is forensically clean. You would not wish to take a gearbox apart in anything other than that environment because in so doing, you introduce way more risk than the benefit from completing an inspection. All of the Aberdeen operators use specialist facilities to complete this work, two of them use Eurocopter.
The gearboxes and their components are managed closely, and the component “lives” (how many hours the components can operate for before inspection or retirement) are set at very conservative levels. The TBO (time between overhaul) for the EC225 main transmission is 2000 flight hours and given the average aircraft utilisation in Aberdeen , that’s an overhaul, and inspections just like the ones you describe, just about every year.
Hope that gives you some comfort.
Scots.
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Fair go on SM chaps. 
The document does say
and
We all know how the industry (oil) leaps to the fore when coughing cash for safety.
That'll be the day.
The document does say
implementation on the fleet will not happen without commitment & funding from the industry
The commitment of the Oil & Gas industry is now needed for implementation
Once again the oil and gas industry lead the way
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SM- Interesting albeit very top level ppt. Good to see that the quality of data is being addressed and I like the data mining and reasoning approach as long as it is implemented and supplemented by the judgement and expertise of the people with years of HUMS data interpretation experience.. The guys who ask questions that computers will never think of. There is a balance to be found and we are obviously still a long way from the end game, but very good to see that steps are still being made to drive technology along the road.
My original point which I didn't make clear though was taking this type of thing as a baseline, and given the advances in modern communications methods - Would it be unrealistic to envisage the guys back in Aberdeen being alerted to, and subsequently able to monitor live real time data events as they occur as is done in F1 racing? I know the distances between the vehicle and the groundstation are far greater, but then if we can have in-flight broad band available, why not??
My original point which I didn't make clear though was taking this type of thing as a baseline, and given the advances in modern communications methods - Would it be unrealistic to envisage the guys back in Aberdeen being alerted to, and subsequently able to monitor live real time data events as they occur as is done in F1 racing? I know the distances between the vehicle and the groundstation are far greater, but then if we can have in-flight broad band available, why not??
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Alloa
Great idea, real time HUMS data and even a live external camera into a helicopter operator's operations centre would be a step forward in my opinion. But there would have to be some boundaries established. The same camera feed to go to the cockpit to provide pilots with an external view.
Be careful with SM, he is not S.
Great idea, real time HUMS data and even a live external camera into a helicopter operator's operations centre would be a step forward in my opinion. But there would have to be some boundaries established. The same camera feed to go to the cockpit to provide pilots with an external view.
Be careful with SM, he is not S.
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but then if we can have in-flight broad band available, why not??
e.g. 1) Detroit diesel has for many years been monitoring prime mover engines on road trains operating all round OZ. Says one driver, 'once you get out of Queenslad where the hills are around Mt Isa and get to the flat barkly tableland in the Territory, all of a sudden the fuel pump settings would change and the 120 tonne truck would fairly leap ahead.' All done from head office via satellite.
2) A couple of years ago Caterpillar had sold a most ginormous brand new wheeled loader to an Argyle diamond mine contractor. One day it stopped. Mechanics from the agents all over OZ could not fix it no matter how hard they scratched the head. Finally someone rings caterpiller-merica.
Came the response. "Godamn, I caan't see it, where is it?"
'Well we pulled the axles out and dragged it into the big shed mate, eh!'
"Warrllll," says godamm, "you jus drag that there machine outta the shed where ah can see it and in twenty minutes it'll start."
and it did. cool eh?
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One of the big issues we always faced was the level of information given to the Pilots in real time and how that was used in their decision making processes. Back then (10 years ago) the argument was that the warnings generated by HUMS were never considered reliable enough for a Pilot to decide on whether or not to ditch, however my view was always that HUMS data presented to the Pilot in real time (Such as a cockpit display) should be read in conjunction with other indications. I believe the general jist of the GE system perhaps provides better quality and granularity of data to be able to be used in such a fashion. That said there is always a scenario where something like a crack may become terminal before any other supporting indications become apparent, in which case, real time monitoring and support from base becomes crucial.
Perhaps a broad review of how HUMS is implemented is needed as much as the new technology. Maybe greater training - by which I mean train Pilots and all LAE's on the HUMS systems to a greater degree rather than have each company having a "Yoda" in the HUMS management office. Either that or expand the HUMS operation to more of a monitoring and control centre. It shouldn't need 24/7 user input staring at screens, but a method of alerting the user to events as they occur.
Incidentally.. in my scenario, we still need the "Yoda's" to oversee and manage the implementation
Perhaps a broad review of how HUMS is implemented is needed as much as the new technology. Maybe greater training - by which I mean train Pilots and all LAE's on the HUMS systems to a greater degree rather than have each company having a "Yoda" in the HUMS management office. Either that or expand the HUMS operation to more of a monitoring and control centre. It shouldn't need 24/7 user input staring at screens, but a method of alerting the user to events as they occur.
Incidentally.. in my scenario, we still need the "Yoda's" to oversee and manage the implementation
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/369...ml#post4865130
Would suggest a read of this thread again, seems we are on the roundabout regarding HUMS.
Would suggest a read of this thread again, seems we are on the roundabout regarding HUMS.
Last edited by 500e; 15th May 2012 at 10:37.
Who picks up the Bill for this one?
Bond, their Insurance Carrier, Eurocopter, or whoever it was that made the bad shaft (if not EC)?
Bond, their Insurance Carrier, Eurocopter, or whoever it was that made the bad shaft (if not EC)?
