Numptie Pilot
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Something squawked something when it shouldn't, must have been a pesky parrot. A red and white one.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: flight op's sofa
The press are so one sided...
Where is the statement from some passing school, who said "it was so loud and cool, I nearly !!!! myself"
They should be lucky to experience the power of a sonic boom, and it was good press coverage to let people know we still have some aircraft left.
What I'd like to know is how much trouble the helicopter pilot got into?
If it was just a slap on the wrist's, as I expect, I might see if I can arrange a typhoon fly buy, to my local church fate in the summer.
H
Where is the statement from some passing school, who said "it was so loud and cool, I nearly !!!! myself"
They should be lucky to experience the power of a sonic boom, and it was good press coverage to let people know we still have some aircraft left.
What I'd like to know is how much trouble the helicopter pilot got into?
If it was just a slap on the wrist's, as I expect, I might see if I can arrange a typhoon fly buy, to my local church fate in the summer.
H
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 505
Likes: 1
From: Wiltshire, UK
... if I can arrange a typhoon fly buy, to my local church fate in the summer
It'd be more than just the glass that gets stained.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 603
Likes: 65
From: South of UK
From another place:
So perhaps not quite so 'numpty' after all.
...I believe there was some malfunction on the transponder that started the alert. I am not sure why the alert continued.
Although I am getting info second hand, and have not spoken to the pilot directly, he is a very experienced and competent heli pilot, who has been shook up by two typhoons circling him in a vertical attitude. With the turbulence created by them nearly downing him & his passengers.
I believe he has received several apologies today.
Although I am getting info second hand, and have not spoken to the pilot directly, he is a very experienced and competent heli pilot, who has been shook up by two typhoons circling him in a vertical attitude. With the turbulence created by them nearly downing him & his passengers.
I believe he has received several apologies today.
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 6
From: UK
Not taking anything away from the pilot, I could easily have done the same mistake myself, but I assume he wasn't talking to ATC or else they would have asked him if he was alright before launching the Typhoons?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,752
Likes: 64
From: Alles über die platz
From another place:
Quote:
...I believe there was some malfunction on the transponder that started the alert. I am not sure why the alert continued.
...I believe there was some malfunction on the transponder that started the alert. I am not sure why the alert continued.
Around 1:4096
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: Head in the sky
squawk
It was definitely a Gazelle returning home from Aintree, he was working Staverton at the time who requested he check his squawk & then asked him to turn his transponder off........job done.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Dorset
Not buying all this good pilot BS,
That particular squawk exists for a reason. Why would you set it, or why would the IFF malfunction and emit that squawk without being set?
I don't but this freak IFF accident BS. Someone was a numpty.....
That particular squawk exists for a reason. Why would you set it, or why would the IFF malfunction and emit that squawk without being set?
I don't but this freak IFF accident BS. Someone was a numpty.....
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,752
Likes: 64
From: Alles über die platz
412 Guy - it's not impossible for a transponder to transmit a wrong code. It's happened to me several times over the years.
I'd have to side with 412guy;
Not buying all this good pilot BS,
That particular squawk exists for a reason. Why would you set it, or why would the IFF malfunction and emit that squawk without being set?
I don't but this freak IFF accident BS. Someone was a numpty.....
That particular squawk exists for a reason. Why would you set it, or why would the IFF malfunction and emit that squawk without being set?
I don't but this freak IFF accident BS. Someone was a numpty.....
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 2
From: In the air with luck
For example: when changing from 0500 to 7000 (VFR code): you might turn the first knob to a 7 (thus 7500), and at this time the second knob still is set to 5. This would momentarily have the transponder replying the hijack code (7500), which might lead to a lot more attention than desired. I would recommend to set the transponder in 'standby mode' before changing the codes. It will cause a temporarily loss of target info on the radar screen, but it's safer than having bells going off in ATC centers and F16s scramble for you because you accidentally had 7500 displayed on the radar screen.
Someone else's suggestion.
Where in the stack was the transponder? was it easily readable a quick look down under pressure a 5 could be seen as 0.
Or it could have been Sid's last thought
All ready got the coat on
Someone else's suggestion.
Where in the stack was the transponder? was it easily readable a quick look down under pressure a 5 could be seen as 0.
Or it could have been Sid's last thought
All ready got the coat on
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
From: UK
It seems most likely he carelessly fumbled selecting 7000, failed to check it and then wasn't talking to anyone (with radar perhaps) on the radio...silly boy.
I assume it was before the crabs made their heroic save-the-nation dash that London Centre were calling him vainly on Guard but naturally he wasn't listening to that either, they somehow knew his registration at that point (I was over France and could only hear the London side of the conversation) and were in contact with another aircraft that could see him but was not close enough to confirm his reg.
What a storm in a teacup, panic reacting as though a poxy little Gazelle near Ha'penny Green could be a threat to national security. We really have lost the plot, haven't we, crapping ourselves like a neurotic geriatric spotting a harmless hoodie at the other end of the park.?
I assume it was before the crabs made their heroic save-the-nation dash that London Centre were calling him vainly on Guard but naturally he wasn't listening to that either, they somehow knew his registration at that point (I was over France and could only hear the London side of the conversation) and were in contact with another aircraft that could see him but was not close enough to confirm his reg.
What a storm in a teacup, panic reacting as though a poxy little Gazelle near Ha'penny Green could be a threat to national security. We really have lost the plot, haven't we, crapping ourselves like a neurotic geriatric spotting a harmless hoodie at the other end of the park.?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,752
Likes: 64
From: Alles über die platz
For example: when changing from 0500 to 7000 (VFR code): you might turn the first knob to a 7 (thus 7500), and at this time the second knob still is set to 5. This would momentarily have the transponder replying the hijack code (7500), which might lead to a lot more attention than desired. I would recommend to set the transponder in 'standby mode' before changing the codes. It will cause a temporarily loss of target info on the radar screen, but it's safer than having bells going off in ATC centers and F16s scramble for you because you accidentally had 7500 displayed on the radar screen.
What you fail to notice is that a civi Gazelle squawking 0500 is in itself quite revealing!!
------------------
UK AIP
ENR 1.6 — ATS SURVEILLANCE SERVICES AND PROCEDURES
ENR 1.6.1 — ATS SURVEILLANCE SERVICES
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2012-04-05.pdf
UK SSR Code Assignment Plan
*0050 - NATO - CAOC 9 Exercises (activated by NOTAM)
Note 2. The codes or series annotated * are used for conspicuity, co-ordination or special purposes and, unless procedures have been agreed with UK CAA Directorate of Airspace Policy, the Mode A code and associated Mode C data must be considered unvalidated and unverified.
--------------
So you might say 0500 isn't the best example. Would you rather;
1500 or 2500 or 3500 or 4500 or 5500 or 6500
Notice anything all those codes have in common?
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 145
Likes: 19
From: Wensleydale.
This is interesting BBC News - Sonic boom helicopter passengers 'lucky to be alive' It doesn't read my mate took me on a jolly to the races in his permit Gazelle or have the rules relaxed.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Dorset
I try and look at the facts....
Fact 1. A squawk that should not have been emitted, was emmitted.
Fact 2. A lot of expense and effort followed.
The wrong squawk was caused by one of the following:
1. Incorrect setting.
2. Transponder fault causing it to emit [benefit of the doubt, Beefer], with incorrect setting causing nationwide panic.
So the pilot was guilty of one of the following:
1. Not knowing the basic rules of the air.
2. Not concentrating on what he was doing.
3. Making an honest [though costly] mistake.
If it's the latter, I have no problem with his actions.....god knows Ive made mistakes myself.
However, if you make a mistake - you fess up and help ensure nobody else makes the same mistake. What you can't do is blame the kit for accidentally emitting a code that should never have been set.
Someone needs to zip up a man suit and take it on the chin.
Fact 1. A squawk that should not have been emitted, was emmitted.
Fact 2. A lot of expense and effort followed.
The wrong squawk was caused by one of the following:
1. Incorrect setting.
2. Transponder fault causing it to emit [benefit of the doubt, Beefer], with incorrect setting causing nationwide panic.
So the pilot was guilty of one of the following:
1. Not knowing the basic rules of the air.
2. Not concentrating on what he was doing.
3. Making an honest [though costly] mistake.
If it's the latter, I have no problem with his actions.....god knows Ive made mistakes myself.
However, if you make a mistake - you fess up and help ensure nobody else makes the same mistake. What you can't do is blame the kit for accidentally emitting a code that should never have been set.
Someone needs to zip up a man suit and take it on the chin.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 320
Likes: 54
From: Northumberland, England
This is interesting BBC News - Sonic boom helicopter passengers 'lucky to be alive' It doesn't read my mate took me on a jolly to the races in his permit Gazelle or have the rules relaxed.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 603
Likes: 65
From: South of UK
Rules changed in 2010
See:CAA announces changes to the regulation of ex-military aircraft - News - Shephard
However, the BBC piece does read like it wasn't quite a jolly with a mate.....
See:CAA announces changes to the regulation of ex-military aircraft - News - Shephard
However, the BBC piece does read like it wasn't quite a jolly with a mate.....