Portable ILS, and 3-colour glideslope
Thread Starter
Portable ILS, and 3-colour glideslope
Fellow Pruners,
Do any of you know of a source for a portable ILS?
It would be very useful for training purposes (obviously CASA would not permit it for landings without some serious surveying and paperwork) but I do not know of any in the open market.
Similarly, I have used in the past a 3-colour approach slope light, fixed on a building and steerable to a suitable azimuth and elevation, but again a trawl of google has not come up with anything.
Help?
Do any of you know of a source for a portable ILS?
It would be very useful for training purposes (obviously CASA would not permit it for landings without some serious surveying and paperwork) but I do not know of any in the open market.
Similarly, I have used in the past a 3-colour approach slope light, fixed on a building and steerable to a suitable azimuth and elevation, but again a trawl of google has not come up with anything.
Help?
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According to this article back from 2005 Textron Systems Corp. was awarded a contract to deliver 37 mobile microwave landing systems (MMLS) type AN/TRN-45 at a price of USD 8,300,000.
Obviously for the military (to be used in Afghanistan and Iraq).
Even without service and training agreement this comes down to at least USD 200,000 per unit. I guess you can do a lot of training ILS approaches at any airport until reaching B/E.
Obviously for the military (to be used in Afghanistan and Iraq).
Even without service and training agreement this comes down to at least USD 200,000 per unit. I guess you can do a lot of training ILS approaches at any airport until reaching B/E.
Aside from the price, I don't think you'd even be allowed to own a portable VHF transmitter like that. Imagine the problems this could cause if tuned to the wrong frequency / turned on in the wrong location.
I think your best bet would be to simulate the glideslope on a GPS with VNAV capabilities.
I think your best bet would be to simulate the glideslope on a GPS with VNAV capabilities.
Thread Starter
Lily-bubble,
I think you might have a good idea there with the GPS. All ours are WAAS capable, but there is no WAAS in OZ.
How can we get a portable WAAS to allow us to have our own glideslope?
And nothing on the 3-colour Bardic?
I think you might have a good idea there with the GPS. All ours are WAAS capable, but there is no WAAS in OZ.
How can we get a portable WAAS to allow us to have our own glideslope?
And nothing on the 3-colour Bardic?
Before WAAS was something so called "differential GPS" in nature somewhere in 30 km
circle range you have one fixed GPS receiver with known position. When you
process that "position jumping" out of fixed GPS you have 3D error vector, useful
for compensation of real position of your flying on board GPS.
Live link must be present.
That is what WAAS providing from above out of 30-40 fixed positions
network in Europe.
Please keep in mind that you cannot broadcast on WAAS GPS freq but you
can use some legitimate data links in 800-900 MHz or 2,4 GHz ranges.
Time ago we have used for some measuring application DGPS system in
kinematic (live) mode with accuracy better than 20 cm on 3 D
(position + WGS 84 height)
Please keep in mind that height of WGS 84 is not the same like real geoid height.
Reason WGS 84 is „ideal" ellipsoid and our dear earth is geoid, more like something
what can be described like average potato shape
circle range you have one fixed GPS receiver with known position. When you
process that "position jumping" out of fixed GPS you have 3D error vector, useful
for compensation of real position of your flying on board GPS.
Live link must be present.
That is what WAAS providing from above out of 30-40 fixed positions
network in Europe.
Please keep in mind that you cannot broadcast on WAAS GPS freq but you
can use some legitimate data links in 800-900 MHz or 2,4 GHz ranges.
Time ago we have used for some measuring application DGPS system in
kinematic (live) mode with accuracy better than 20 cm on 3 D
(position + WGS 84 height)
Please keep in mind that height of WGS 84 is not the same like real geoid height.
Reason WGS 84 is „ideal" ellipsoid and our dear earth is geoid, more like something
what can be described like average potato shape
They developed a portable ILS called Madge some forty years ago. It was even tried out by installing it on the Beryl 'A' platform in the North Sea but it was given up by everybody as not really worthwhile. Should there be a requirement for ILS training then there must be a diversion nearby that has the ILS so why not use that. Far cheaper, even with the charges, than organising your own.
Off hand, I can think of six different visual approach systems that have been tried since 1965. Every time they have gone back to the basic tee or the helipad/deck circle. It works, and will continue to work.
Off hand, I can think of six different visual approach systems that have been tried since 1965. Every time they have gone back to the basic tee or the helipad/deck circle. It works, and will continue to work.
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LAAS (Local Area Augmentation System) works well as an ILS replacement. Used in Norway on quite a few airports that are too short for an ILS installation. Gives down to nearly cm accuracy.
I believe it's commercially available, and does not use the same concept as WAAS (which needs it's own system of receivers and a geo-stationary satellite to transmit the corrections).
I was involved in a lot of discussion about LAAS when I was at Transport Canada, and thought it was the answer for a lot of operations, particularly helicopter.
I believe it's commercially available, and does not use the same concept as WAAS (which needs it's own system of receivers and a geo-stationary satellite to transmit the corrections).
I was involved in a lot of discussion about LAAS when I was at Transport Canada, and thought it was the answer for a lot of operations, particularly helicopter.
We trialled TLS at Farnborough in the '90s. You can hardly call it a portable system as it needs multiple differential receiving stations at accurately known positions on the landing site.
A portable visual guidance system would be 'HAPI' (Helicopter Approach Path Indicator) which gives the following indications from one single unit:
Steady Red - below glidepath
Flashing red - slightly below
Steady White - on glidepath
Flashing White - above glidepath
NB May have got those last two the wrong way round.
You can get a remote control version on a turntable for multiple approach tracks.
A portable visual guidance system would be 'HAPI' (Helicopter Approach Path Indicator) which gives the following indications from one single unit:
Steady Red - below glidepath
Flashing red - slightly below
Steady White - on glidepath
Flashing White - above glidepath
NB May have got those last two the wrong way round.
You can get a remote control version on a turntable for multiple approach tracks.
LPV then?
Not in the short term if you are in AUS. Still dicking about with the cost of SBAS.
Not in the short term if you are in AUS. Still dicking about with the cost of SBAS.
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Hi,
I've used this piece of equipment during the last 6 months. I believe it was on loan from the manufacturers on a trial basis. It produced good results and made visual approaches at night very easy. It was also visible by day. Setup was pretty easy and the battery life was pretty good. http://www.bauertech.org/PDF/GL3.pdf
Best of luck
I've used this piece of equipment during the last 6 months. I believe it was on loan from the manufacturers on a trial basis. It produced good results and made visual approaches at night very easy. It was also visible by day. Setup was pretty easy and the battery life was pretty good. http://www.bauertech.org/PDF/GL3.pdf
Best of luck
Similar to Heli PLASI or HAPI, just slightly different light indications, but how much does it cost? I'd like to recommend it to my airport authority as we have just increased the number of helicopter operators and there is a percieved 'need' for a FATO separate from the fixed wing runway.
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Portable Glide Slope
I have some info on this unit. The GL3 system costs around £12,000 complete with mounts battery etc. This is a very strong system made for disaster relief & emergency use. It can be set up in only 3 minutes. See youtube BAUERTECH1 - YouTube for a video of a similar larger system made for the Japanese Defence Force, who needed a fully sumbersible unit, but the set-up is the same.
