B206 / R66
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B206 / R66
Currently we fly an R44 II for sightseeing flights. We would like to expand with a B206b.j.III or R66. I guess it's a little early to make good comparisons between this aircrafts. But, what would you choose?
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Robinson has just delivered #100 and they have had 2 fatal accidents without a reasonable explanation as to what happened. Based on Robinson's accident record and they past history of how they respond and their support, I would hold off getting an R66 until the dust settles. Personally, I believe that the early R66 owners will be left holding the bag.
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Yep buy a good second hand JR, or TWO for the price of a 66.
Just wait for the first series of 66 owners to hit the O/H life on that engine. You think that 250's are expensive to O/H, wait till you have to send it back to the manufacturer. No competition, now all those 44 owners will learn about those expensive turbine engines.
Just wait for the first series of 66 owners to hit the O/H life on that engine. You think that 250's are expensive to O/H, wait till you have to send it back to the manufacturer. No competition, now all those 44 owners will learn about those expensive turbine engines.
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If it was me, and the budget could stretch to a new 66, why not go for an LIII.
The JR isn't that much of a big step from the 44, 1 more pax, and a boot! Not such a big deal on scenics, (although it is easily twice the helicopter! I'm not biased either...)
But a LR is twice the helicopter of a 44 on those types of ops.
The JR isn't that much of a big step from the 44, 1 more pax, and a boot! Not such a big deal on scenics, (although it is easily twice the helicopter! I'm not biased either...)
But a LR is twice the helicopter of a 44 on those types of ops.
...or do what I did and go for an EC120. Same money (or less) as a new R66 and, shall we say, a slightly different proposition.
JRs are solid, but a bit long in the tooth now
JRs are solid, but a bit long in the tooth now
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I hear the EASA certification for the R66 is still pending due to issues with the hydraulics whereas the FAA did grant an exemption(?)
Much more 'interesting' is a rumour about an overhaul limit of 1000 cycles on the engine. Quite easy to reach when doing short scenic flights in a touring operation.
Much more 'interesting' is a rumour about an overhaul limit of 1000 cycles on the engine. Quite easy to reach when doing short scenic flights in a touring operation.
Hovering AND talking
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Surely this is a case of the old adage, "Never fly the 'A' model of anything".
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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R66
I'm Flying SN0052 R66, and I'll tell you it is a great machine, nothing like a R44, plenty of power (I've done vertical take-offs at Max Gross), excellent fuel burn (84 lts hour I'm doing), great baggage compartment, great glide and way more stable than the R44. I'm always flying within limitations and I've had no problems so far. I'll go with the R66.
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Much more 'interesting' is a rumour about an overhaul limit of 1000 cycles on the engine
Overhaul limit is 3000 cycles or 2000 hours
Much more 'interesting' is a rumour about an overhaul limit of 1000 cycles on the engine
Overhaul limit is 3000 cycles or 2000 hours
The RR250 is a modular engine with uneven life limits/overhaul times. If we look at the TCDS for the RR250-C300, this engine is a C-20 from the compressor on back. Accordingly, if the #1 and #2 wheels are PN 23073853 and 23073854, then they have a finite life limit of 1775 hours and a cycle limit of 3000. (Not sure what the compressor times are for the 250-C300.) Big chunk o'change to replace the #1 and #2 wheels at 1775 hours.
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R66?
I test flew a new R66 for the first time today and, to be honest, I wasn't all that wowed by it. Very smooth and handles like a dream. The downside was that over 100 knots it feels just as lumpy as an R44. I guess with the same blades you'll have the same balancing issues.
Also it's cramped in the back for more than a small adult and didn't have that solid feel about it that a Bell 206 has - all still feels a bit M.Mouse for my taste. Personally I would stick to a Jetranger for AOC and leave the Robinson's to the private owners and flight training schools.
I would also agree with what others have stated about the life of the R66. Not only does the airframe have a 2200 hour overhaul life, but the engine has a 2000 hour or 3000 cycle life. The engine is not modular either, it's one lump so if anything goes wrong you have to send the whole thing for repair. RHC and RR must have teamed up to screw the market on this one.
With regards to EASA certification, RHC R66 SB-03 (hydraulic servo rework) may be the final step towards getting it but as usual is at the customers expense.
But that's just my opinion, others may feel free to disagree
Also it's cramped in the back for more than a small adult and didn't have that solid feel about it that a Bell 206 has - all still feels a bit M.Mouse for my taste. Personally I would stick to a Jetranger for AOC and leave the Robinson's to the private owners and flight training schools.
I would also agree with what others have stated about the life of the R66. Not only does the airframe have a 2200 hour overhaul life, but the engine has a 2000 hour or 3000 cycle life. The engine is not modular either, it's one lump so if anything goes wrong you have to send the whole thing for repair. RHC and RR must have teamed up to screw the market on this one.
With regards to EASA certification, RHC R66 SB-03 (hydraulic servo rework) may be the final step towards getting it but as usual is at the customers expense.
But that's just my opinion, others may feel free to disagree
CaptainDean, those two R44s will cost a lot of money to rebuild at 2000/2200 hours. What's more they never seem to get anywhere near those hours without needing new blades front and back. Now it's fuel bladders. What's next?
206B or if you need the extra seats, 206L. Not that great for sightseeing PAX though.
206B or if you need the extra seats, 206L. Not that great for sightseeing PAX though.
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R66
Soave Pilot, hooray. A post about a subject where someone has actual knowledge of what he is saying...all too rare sometimes on prune.
I too am making a decision on what to buy next, having flown a 44 for the last few years, I am a fan (yes, I actually fly one, not just make comments), and I have flown the 66 for about 6 - 7 hours - enough to make a proper judgement.
I need to buy a two blade machine, as my hangar can only fit that sort of aircraft. So it's either (new) a R66 or a Longranger IV, and yes, before someone states the obvious, they are entirely different machines. And a Longy is 2.5 x as much to buy ! Plus you can't talk to the PAX eye to eye).
A moment of clarity though if I may...comparing a 40 + year old designed Jetranger to a R66 is just not on. They are completely different machines, with vastly different performance. A 66 will cruise at 120 knots, more if you want to get somewhere fast, a Jetty will do 100 (maybe 110) knots. Tail rotor authority on the Jetty is not so great, the 66 is fantastic (even with the big tail). I have had 5 adults, 3/4 fuel in a 66 and it will OGE hover no problem...excuse me, but a Jetty simply will not do that. 4 adults, lots of bags and a 66 will go straight up - a Jetty, no it won't.
Again, a study of the facts (as rightly pointed out above) will put to rest a lot of the rubbish that is said about the 66 (and indeed the 44).
We all want knowledge, let's just try to stay with the facts.
PS - I still haven't made up my mind, but flying the 66 is really good, solid, fast, reliable, NEW design and much less than a Jetty was when you could buy them new !
PPS - a NEW (design) 206 from Bell at (say) 1.2 meg, with a new motor etc would be a welcome addition to my list of choices, but not a 2nd hand machine.
Arrrj
I too am making a decision on what to buy next, having flown a 44 for the last few years, I am a fan (yes, I actually fly one, not just make comments), and I have flown the 66 for about 6 - 7 hours - enough to make a proper judgement.
I need to buy a two blade machine, as my hangar can only fit that sort of aircraft. So it's either (new) a R66 or a Longranger IV, and yes, before someone states the obvious, they are entirely different machines. And a Longy is 2.5 x as much to buy ! Plus you can't talk to the PAX eye to eye).
A moment of clarity though if I may...comparing a 40 + year old designed Jetranger to a R66 is just not on. They are completely different machines, with vastly different performance. A 66 will cruise at 120 knots, more if you want to get somewhere fast, a Jetty will do 100 (maybe 110) knots. Tail rotor authority on the Jetty is not so great, the 66 is fantastic (even with the big tail). I have had 5 adults, 3/4 fuel in a 66 and it will OGE hover no problem...excuse me, but a Jetty simply will not do that. 4 adults, lots of bags and a 66 will go straight up - a Jetty, no it won't.
Again, a study of the facts (as rightly pointed out above) will put to rest a lot of the rubbish that is said about the 66 (and indeed the 44).
We all want knowledge, let's just try to stay with the facts.
PS - I still haven't made up my mind, but flying the 66 is really good, solid, fast, reliable, NEW design and much less than a Jetty was when you could buy them new !
PPS - a NEW (design) 206 from Bell at (say) 1.2 meg, with a new motor etc would be a welcome addition to my list of choices, but not a 2nd hand machine.
Arrrj