Any Helicopter Articles on Over-Reliance on GPS
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a moving map gps freeze the screen on me a few miles before a turn to avoid controlled airspace. Fortunately, I had a second GPS on board, and glancing at it realised I was a lot closer than I expected to be and that the first one wasn't moving the map. Without that backup I probably would have infringed.
That lesson made me cross-check with the map far more frequently, and I make a rough mental note of a clock time when I'm due to be turning if I'm approaching an important waypoint. I also prefer to have two of them, one programmed with the route, the other just showing my position and airspace etc.
Lafite
That lesson made me cross-check with the map far more frequently, and I make a rough mental note of a clock time when I'm due to be turning if I'm approaching an important waypoint. I also prefer to have two of them, one programmed with the route, the other just showing my position and airspace etc.
Lafite
Sometimes the GPS is perfectly accurate, but people get killed because the database is not current. So - never rely on installed GPS to be current, and ensure that any handheld you have is marked with the last date of update.
And they do get jammed very easily. It takes half a watt.
Also, operating over NW England for the visit of a senior US politician, the US turned off the GPS for the whole area.
And they do get jammed very easily. It takes half a watt.
Also, operating over NW England for the visit of a senior US politician, the US turned off the GPS for the whole area.
A Half Watt?
More risk is imposed by a Half Wit!
More risk is imposed by a Half Wit!
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not helicopter specific, but there's another article on the net this morning about a study on jamming and over reliance on GPS systems.
UK Sentinel study reveals GPS jammer use | ZDNet UK
UK Sentinel study reveals GPS jammer use | ZDNet UK
The government-funded Sentinel project has uncovered more than a hundred incidents of GPS jammer use in the UK since January 2011.
"The idea behind Sentinel is to detect and locate interference," Chronos Technology's divisional manager Andy Proctor told ZDNet UK on Wednesday. "Until you physically get a jammer in your hands you can't claim 100 percent it's a jammer, because you don't know what's been causing the interference."
The Sentinel field trials of GPS jamming involved sensors in different locations. One sensor placed in a city next to some docks and a two-lane link motorway found 67 incidents of vehicles using GPS jamming over a six-month period, according to Chronos Technology's managing director Charles Curry.
"These events were real and corroborated," Curry told ZDNet UK at the GNSS Vulnerability: Present Dangers, Future Threats 2012 conference.
GPS jammers work by broadcasting a strong local signal on the same frequency as GPS, effectively drowning the weak GPS signal broadcast by satellites. People illegally jam GPS for a number of reasons, Curry told the audience at the conference at the National Physical Laboratory. These include evasion of company-vehicle or covert tracking, and stealing high-value vehicles.
In prior trials, a white van driver using GPS jamming had been apprehended by police, said Curry. The man, who was not brought to trial, was using jamming to evade company GPS tracking. ZDNet UK understands the man was apprehended as part of trials of GAARDIAN, a preceding technology to Sentinel. GAARDIAN trials ran from 2008 to 2011.
"The idea behind Sentinel is to detect and locate interference," Chronos Technology's divisional manager Andy Proctor told ZDNet UK on Wednesday. "Until you physically get a jammer in your hands you can't claim 100 percent it's a jammer, because you don't know what's been causing the interference."
The Sentinel field trials of GPS jamming involved sensors in different locations. One sensor placed in a city next to some docks and a two-lane link motorway found 67 incidents of vehicles using GPS jamming over a six-month period, according to Chronos Technology's managing director Charles Curry.
"These events were real and corroborated," Curry told ZDNet UK at the GNSS Vulnerability: Present Dangers, Future Threats 2012 conference.
GPS jammers work by broadcasting a strong local signal on the same frequency as GPS, effectively drowning the weak GPS signal broadcast by satellites. People illegally jam GPS for a number of reasons, Curry told the audience at the conference at the National Physical Laboratory. These include evasion of company-vehicle or covert tracking, and stealing high-value vehicles.
In prior trials, a white van driver using GPS jamming had been apprehended by police, said Curry. The man, who was not brought to trial, was using jamming to evade company GPS tracking. ZDNet UK understands the man was apprehended as part of trials of GAARDIAN, a preceding technology to Sentinel. GAARDIAN trials ran from 2008 to 2011.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Accident Report re GPS - read below - important!
Having just spent 5 days in Belfast at the Coroners Court Inquest into the N2NR Agusta 109 crash in the Mourne Mountains, I suggest you read the AAIB report into the tragedy. What is interesting is that the Skymap IIIc did not depict terrain above 2,000ft, even though it gave a scale and colour chart for terrain well above 2,000ft.
Regardless of the niceties of VFR, and GPS being secondary, in the real pragmatic world, considerable reliance can and is placed on GPS data.
I remain concerned that the Skymap IIIc has this serious limitation re terrain above 2,000ft, seemingly without any user knowledge.
The summit of Shanlieve in the Mourne Mountains is 2092 feet. N2NR impacted 118 feet below that summit.
I expect an AD re the Skymap IIIc in due course, so that at least there is some awareness of its limitations.
Anyone interested in this topic can PM me, as it seems to be a real safety issue.
Regardless of the niceties of VFR, and GPS being secondary, in the real pragmatic world, considerable reliance can and is placed on GPS data.
I remain concerned that the Skymap IIIc has this serious limitation re terrain above 2,000ft, seemingly without any user knowledge.
The summit of Shanlieve in the Mourne Mountains is 2092 feet. N2NR impacted 118 feet below that summit.
I expect an AD re the Skymap IIIc in due course, so that at least there is some awareness of its limitations.
Anyone interested in this topic can PM me, as it seems to be a real safety issue.
The lawyes could have a field day against the CAA on this. Given the time & money it takes to certify a GPS, you'd hope that the "certifiers" might have actually tested every aspect of the device.
That's one of the problems caused by certified installs. The other is that, by the time it's got certification, the unit is already outdated in technology.
You get better data & performance from a £700 handheld.
That's one of the problems caused by certified installs. The other is that, by the time it's got certification, the unit is already outdated in technology.
You get better data & performance from a £700 handheld.
I expect an AD re the Skymap IIIc in due course
The installation will have been certified as to not interfere with the aircraft systems but as far as navigation certification goes I would seriously doubt it.
According to Bendix King data there are NO approvals for the Skymap. It appears to be a USD 33,000.00 handheld that you can mount in your panel if you wish.
Extracted from the Skymap Pilots Guide -
This equipment is not a replacement for your chart. It is intended as an aid to VFR
navigation only. The database within the equipment has been compiled from the latest
official information available, and although every care has been taken in the compilation,
the manufacturers will not be held responsible for any inaccuracy or omissions therein
navigation only. The database within the equipment has been compiled from the latest
official information available, and although every care has been taken in the compilation,
the manufacturers will not be held responsible for any inaccuracy or omissions therein
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Age: 71
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unless it is very unusual, part of the installation will have included a label stating pretty much what RVDT quotes. You should understand what your kit does and does not do. A Skymap is NOT an IFR/IMC device but a VFR aid.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Over Reliance? I have several article suggestions.
Some of the articles I would suggest are:"Aviation Sectionals Blowing out of Helicopters, Over Reliance on Pilotage no longer taught in Flight Schools! all Passengers almost Die!"
"When 2 Engines aren't enough, Reliance on the Modern Turbo-Shaft Engine points back at multiple Piston Engines in Modern Helicopters"
"Aircraft Pilots Use AM Radio Beacon to Listen to Ball Game, violate TFR and land in Wrong City"
"When good fuel goes bad, helicopters now require clean fuel delivered to the engine to be safe, think twice before going up"
and my personal favorite:
"Over-Reliance on the Air Traffic Controller, When Happy-Hour runs long"
Sarcasm emphasized.
Give me a break, the GPS system is a very redundant government operated system relied upon for many operations, not just aviation. If you have such concerns about your GPS going out, either within the aircraft, or a system-wide outage, you should be prepared to use the other tools available to you from the first day of flight school. Pilotage, compass, ATC vectors, VOR, NDB's all come to mind.
Use GPS as a tool like any other, and have a back up in mind just like any other system on your aircraft.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On the Rump of Pendle Hill Lancashi
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I was in my training two of the three Fi's seemed to always want to use the GPS first, the maps as a back up, the reason being given was that it was easier when flying a heli to refer to the GPS , but even around the north of England the GPS was never as good as a old fashioned map with Hi Viz ink lines drawn showing headings and wind direction. Now that was 12 years ago and I would suspect GPS units are better now than then, but I would only really use the GPS as a cross ref for the maps on any long flight into unfamiliar territory.
How many people even today using Sat Nav in car's finish up taking longer or being presented with roads not suitable for HGVs and cars,
..No GPS is merely an aid to Flyers rely on it soley and you may not get to your required destination !
Peter R-B
Lancashire
How many people even today using Sat Nav in car's finish up taking longer or being presented with roads not suitable for HGVs and cars,
..No GPS is merely an aid to Flyers rely on it soley and you may not get to your required destination !
Peter R-B
Lancashire
