AS 350 B3e - anyone flown one yet?
Top of the World
Namaste victor papa
Hmmm I guess You have not operated to much above 10,000' let alone 20,000' the fenestron is very heavy, very power hungry, plus runs out of authority very easy well below 19,000' nah no thanks give me a conventional tail-rotor for power & authority any day. But yes the 130 is very sexy just shame about the tail end of her hmmmm maybe we need a B5
Happy Landings
VF
Hmmm I guess You have not operated to much above 10,000' let alone 20,000' the fenestron is very heavy, very power hungry, plus runs out of authority very easy well below 19,000' nah no thanks give me a conventional tail-rotor for power & authority any day. But yes the 130 is very sexy just shame about the tail end of her hmmmm maybe we need a B5
Happy Landings
VF
Last edited by Vertical Freedom; 1st Dec 2012 at 12:44.
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Vertical Freedom, not arguing but have you read the specs on the new 130T2? The B3e is a great machine and will be once the tail issues are sorted, but I do think we are very close if not on the limit of the 350 design limitations and hence the no increases in MAUW despite the power increase. I do know the B3e,s biggest improvement is apparently in DOM costs due the longer TBO on the engine-or so I was told
Top of the World - office
Hey Victor Papa
Yep read the performance specs & as I said at serious altitudes the B4T2 still is poor in comparison to the B3+ conventional tail-rotor not to mention all the extra weight added to make up that butt ugly fenestron
Happy Landings Always
VF
Yep read the performance specs & as I said at serious altitudes the B4T2 still is poor in comparison to the B3+ conventional tail-rotor not to mention all the extra weight added to make up that butt ugly fenestron
Happy Landings Always
VF
Victor Papa,
Now, is the design changed much on the T2, compared to the B4? If so, what are they?
As the B4 is just a "frankenschteined" 350 with a higher AUW due to a higher dry weight, dual hyd and the Fenestron. (same type certficate)
Does the T2 have a brand new MGB, new blades and basic structure? If not, then it just got a bit more power on the back (surely not the only mods, but)
What is the TBO on the MGB of the B4 and the T2? Normal TBO on the B3 is 2500hrs, but with the dual hyd, it is only 1500, which kind of increase the DOC alot.
I am abit puzzled, when reading the stats on EC's homepage.
The 130 has 2500kgs Mtow, internally and 3050kgs with ext load, which is limited to 1500kgs.
The 350 has 2250 without dual hyd internally (2370 with, 130 kgs less than the T2!) and 2800 ext load, max 1400kgs.
I really would like to know, how the numbers of the T2 can be like that, if the T2 and the B3e has the same basic structure, engine and drivetrain
kateean2
I think you will find that "improvement" to be not an improvement after all...
Now, is the design changed much on the T2, compared to the B4? If so, what are they?
As the B4 is just a "frankenschteined" 350 with a higher AUW due to a higher dry weight, dual hyd and the Fenestron. (same type certficate)
Does the T2 have a brand new MGB, new blades and basic structure? If not, then it just got a bit more power on the back (surely not the only mods, but)
What is the TBO on the MGB of the B4 and the T2? Normal TBO on the B3 is 2500hrs, but with the dual hyd, it is only 1500, which kind of increase the DOC alot.
I am abit puzzled, when reading the stats on EC's homepage.
The 130 has 2500kgs Mtow, internally and 3050kgs with ext load, which is limited to 1500kgs.
The 350 has 2250 without dual hyd internally (2370 with, 130 kgs less than the T2!) and 2800 ext load, max 1400kgs.
I really would like to know, how the numbers of the T2 can be like that, if the T2 and the B3e has the same basic structure, engine and drivetrain
kateean2
but in the removal of the Tail Rotor yaw compensator which is replaced with additional boss weights on the TR Blades to assist the pilot with RH pedal incase of hydraulic failure.
Last edited by Nubian; 2nd Dec 2012 at 08:10.
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Regarding the chinese weights being the best improovement(I thought it would be too), I sincerely hope you are up to date with your ASB's and adhearing to the 100kt TAS VNE and 3 hr inspections.
Regarding the T2 I have read the brochures and spoke to people who flew her. Apparently 70perc of the frame is new and yes she has the 355 950 shp MGB where the B3's have the 750 on I believe so a longer torque caution range apparently.
Regarding the T2 I have read the brochures and spoke to people who flew her. Apparently 70perc of the frame is new and yes she has the 355 950 shp MGB where the B3's have the 750 on I believe so a longer torque caution range apparently.
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EASA Approves Fix For AS350B3e Tail Rotor Issues
EASA Approves AS350B3e Tail Rotor Fix
Eurocopter is planning to retrofit the worldwide AS350B3e fleet with a modification to solve a tail rotor issue by August.
The manufacturer, owned by EADS, says the retrofit, which involves the removal of chin weights fitted to the tail rotor assembly and the installation of a load compensator, will fix issues suffered by operators of the B3e variant of the Ecureuil single-engined light helicopter that was launched by the manufacturer at the 2011 Heli-Expo event.
According to the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), several operators of new AS350B3e helos reported that pilots made precautionary landings after feeling vibrations emanating from the helicopter’s tail rotor. Subsequent inspections of three aircraft found that laminated half-bearings in the tail rotor had failed prematurely.
EASA says the issue may have contributed to one fatal accident involving a Kenyan Police AS350B3e in which the pilot felt strong vibrations from the tail rotor before losing control of the aircraft. Investigators found that before the accident, the laminated half-bearings were twice replaced on the helicopter due to their deterioration.
As a result, EASA urged operators to increase checks on the components of the tail rotor and imposed airspeed limitations to reduce the dynamic loads on the tail rotor, because of concerns that the problem could lead to a loss of control.
On Feb. 8, EASA cleared the modification, which it says “restores the tail rotor dynamic load level ... thereby eliminating the modified loading conditions of laminated half-bearings which caused the intensified deterioration and reported failures.”
Eurocopter adds, “After implementation of this modification, the current VNE reduction will be removed and therefore, initial B3e flight performances will be fully restored.”
Eurocopter plans to retrofit all B3e variant helicopters by August 2013 and says it is “in line with the schedule defined.”
Eurocopter is planning to retrofit the worldwide AS350B3e fleet with a modification to solve a tail rotor issue by August.
The manufacturer, owned by EADS, says the retrofit, which involves the removal of chin weights fitted to the tail rotor assembly and the installation of a load compensator, will fix issues suffered by operators of the B3e variant of the Ecureuil single-engined light helicopter that was launched by the manufacturer at the 2011 Heli-Expo event.
According to the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), several operators of new AS350B3e helos reported that pilots made precautionary landings after feeling vibrations emanating from the helicopter’s tail rotor. Subsequent inspections of three aircraft found that laminated half-bearings in the tail rotor had failed prematurely.
EASA says the issue may have contributed to one fatal accident involving a Kenyan Police AS350B3e in which the pilot felt strong vibrations from the tail rotor before losing control of the aircraft. Investigators found that before the accident, the laminated half-bearings were twice replaced on the helicopter due to their deterioration.
As a result, EASA urged operators to increase checks on the components of the tail rotor and imposed airspeed limitations to reduce the dynamic loads on the tail rotor, because of concerns that the problem could lead to a loss of control.
On Feb. 8, EASA cleared the modification, which it says “restores the tail rotor dynamic load level ... thereby eliminating the modified loading conditions of laminated half-bearings which caused the intensified deterioration and reported failures.”
Eurocopter adds, “After implementation of this modification, the current VNE reduction will be removed and therefore, initial B3e flight performances will be fully restored.”
Eurocopter plans to retrofit all B3e variant helicopters by August 2013 and says it is “in line with the schedule defined.”
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Have flown 2 different ones with VNE limited prior to rework of the tail rotor and re-fitting of the load compensator. Test flew one the other day post the tail rotor mod fix. All were good with plenty of get up and go but found the FLI read out more sensitive near the 100% mark in comparison the the software setup on The standard B3 and EC130 2b1 engine.
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Ouch
It seems this one was delivered without the fix then...?
Source: 19-Jun-13 G-ECUK Eurocopter AS350B3e Begbroke, UK
Multiple sources tell us that this AS350B3e crashed and written off at 7.39pm after reported tail rotor issues. This helicopter was delivered new to the owner less than two months ago.
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B3e tail rotor
Supplebottom,
see Ready2Fly's previous post.....15hrs & it bites the dust, TR problem reported, first B3e in UK, currently residing not too far from us in a 'Neutral' location being inspected by Eurocopter engineers. not good, fortunately two people on board survived with minor injuries.
see Ready2Fly's previous post.....15hrs & it bites the dust, TR problem reported, first B3e in UK, currently residing not too far from us in a 'Neutral' location being inspected by Eurocopter engineers. not good, fortunately two people on board survived with minor injuries.
Last edited by 1helicopterppl; 25th Jun 2013 at 11:05.
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Their best engineers must be working on other products, which is a shame because the 350 is more fun to fly than their fenestron equivalents. This really is a big c@ckup by EC. I've been wanting to take a b3e for a spin for a while now but been putting it off with its 100kt limit. Have to wait a bit longer
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If Helihub is correct, and it's a tail rotor yaw compensator accumulator issue, then it would appear to be unrelated to the B3e's laminated half bearing problem. (If delivered within the past couple of months, the aircraft in question would presumably have been retrofitted with the old-style tail rotor anyway -- the retrofit campaign has been on-going since the beginning of the year.)
MOD 07 5606 (the retrofit with the old style TR, sans larger Chinese weights) eliminates the 100 kt limitation.
Quite.
I/C
Originally Posted by Cattletruck
I've been wanting to take a b3e for a spin for a while now but been putting it off with its 100kt limit
Originally Posted by Anthony Supplebottom
What are EC trying to do - drive the Squirrel's reputation into the ground?
I/C
