IR(H) Options

[Curtis E Carr]

If you consider the path from PPL to CPL, as part of your hour building you could easily do 50 hrs XC PIC, then do the SE IR gaining a further 30 hrs, then do the night rating and be at 155 hrs ready to commence the CPL, saving yourself 30 hours worth of hour building.

Not sure that your plan will work.

FCL.610 IR(H) – Prerequisites, experience and crediting

Applicants for an IR shall:

(a) hold:

(1) at least a PPL(H), and:

(i) the privileges to fly at night in accordance with FCL.810 i; or

(ii) an ATPL in another category of aircraft; or

(2) a CPL(H).

And from CAP 804 Section 4 Part L Appendix 6

B IR(H) — Modular flying training course

1 The aim of the IR(H) modular flying training course is to train pilots to the level of proficiency necessary to operate helicopters under IFR and in IMC.

2 An applicant for a modular IR(H) course shall be the holder of a PPL(H) with night rating, or a CPL(H) or an ATPL(H).

Also. I'm sure you are aware of the following with regard to the night rating:

FCL.810 Night rating

(a)

(b) Helicopters. If the privileges of a PPL for helicopters are to be exercised in VFR conditions at night, the applicant shall have:

(1) completed at least 100 hours of flight time as pilot in helicopters after the issue of the licence, including at least 60 hours as PIC on helicopters and 20 hours of cross-country flight;

[Curtis E Carr]

You stated that you would do the IR then the night rating. I have just shown you why it won't work so your plan, as it is, fails.

Also, why do you think you are able to ignore the requirement to have 100 hours as pilot of helicopters after the issue of the PPL before you can do the night rating?

[Curtis E Carr]

Do you mean 120 hours Total Time?

[Curtis E Carr]

I thought so.

If you gain a PPL in the minimum time i.e. 45 hours, you then need another 100 hours before you can obtain the night rating i.e. total time required is 145hours. If it takes you, say, 60 hours to obtain a PPL, you still will need another 100 hours making it a total of 160 hours for the issue of the night rating.

[FullTravelFree]

Impressed with your work Simondlh Sherlock!

I have a question for the JAR-FCL wizards:

Does my IR-SE done in 2009 (no renewals taken since )
can be upgraded to ME without doing SE renewal?

I didn't find it in the regs initially, but one FTO wrote this to me,
when presenting me their offer.

I found out the following:

Holders of a SE IR(H) wishing to extend the IR privileges to a ME IR(H)
for the fist time shall comply with JAR-FCL 2.240 (a) (4)

JAR-FCL 2.240 (a) (4)

The holder of an IR(H) valid for a
single-engine helicopter type wishing to extend
the IR(H) to a multi-engine helicopter type shall
satisfactorily complete a course comprising at
least 5 hours dual instrument instruction time in
that type.

What type would that be? (I assume it's not 5 hours on the SE-IR ship)
are those additional 5 hours IR instruction
on top of the 5 hours which are needed for the ME conversion?

I'm confused, somebody help....?

Thanks!

FTF

[peroo]

JAR-FCL 2.240 (a) (4):

The holder of an IR(H) valid for a
single-engine helicopter type wishing to extend
for the first time the IR(H) to a multi-engine
helicopter type shall satisfactorily complete a
course comprising at least 5 hours dual
instrument instruction time of which three hours
may be in FS or FTD 2/3 or FNPT II/III, plus a
multi engine skill test in accordance with
Section 5 of Appendix 2 or 3 to JAR-FCL 2.240
on that type, at an approved FTO/TRTO.]


Hope this helps.

Peroo

[FullTravelFree]

...Thanks Curtis.
(while you answered I also found the right paragraph, finally...)

But the basic question still stands. Do I need to renew my IR SE yes/no?

I think the regs say no, and I really hope no.... but this FTO thinks yes.


FTF

[Jet Ranger]

I think - yes. Because you are doing an extension from (valid) IR-H/SE to IR-H/ME.

JR

[QTG]

The SE IR must, as the regulation states, be valid. Your first ME type rating will take 10 hours, not 5, and as for all courses, these are minimums.

[FullTravelFree]

This stuff is confusing...
let me rephrase my question.

Where exactly does it state my IR-SE has to be valid within the 12 months period;
before I can do the ME - IR conversion (after getting a ME-VFR typerating first)??????

The following is taken from LASORS 2010
First ME typerating - appendix F:

SPH MET (H): 8 hours:
Using FS C/D: at least 2 hours helicopter & at least 10 hours total
Using FTD 2/3: at least 4 hours helicopter & at least 10 hours total
...and pass the test.

From SE-IR(H) to ME-IR(H) - appendix E:

SE IR(H) to ME IR(H):
5 hour dual instruction time of which 3 hours may be in a FS or FTD 2/3 or FNPT II/III
The holder of a SE IR(H) wishing to upgrade to ME IR(H) will be required to hold a multi-engine type rating
...and pass the test.

[Jet Ranger]

JAR:

First - you will need a type rating for that ME helicopter ( on which you want to fly your training). Or not, if you are already type-rated on that type of the helicopter.

Second - your SE/IR-H must be valid because you are doing "an extension" from SE to ME / IR ( it´s connected )

Third - after all of that, you will need to fly a least 5 h on ME helicopter for ME/IR-H

(I am not sure how much can be on FFS or FNPT, who knows ? )

JR

[Aucky]

Have you emailed [email protected]? Probably not a bad idea if you dob't agree with the responses on here. I'd be interested to hear the outcome. It's always good to give them something to do after those fees we pay

[Curtis E Carr]

Where exactly does it state my IR-SE has to be valid within the 12 months period; before I can do the ME - IR conversion (after getting a ME-VFR typerating first)??????

Forget LASORS. Part FCL is applicable in the UK from 17 Sep 2012

FCL.630.H IR(H) – Extension of privileges from single-engine to multi-engine helicopters

Holders of an IR(H) valid for single-engine helicopters wishing to extend for the first time the IR(H) to multi-engine helicopters shall complete:

(a) a training course at an ATO comprising at least 5 hours dual instrument
instruction time, of which 3 hours may be in an FFS or FTD 2/3 or FNPT II/III; and

(b) section 5 of the skill test in accordance with Appendix 9 to [Part-FCL] on multi engine helicopters.

[FullTravelFree]

OK, clear case: IR SE needs to be valid....

Thanks for help and references

FTF

[helimo]

I am trying to find the minimum amount of required training to lift my EASA ME IR from the 355 onto the 412.

Regulation 1178 should give the answer somewhere, but i cant find it
If I remember coreectly, its 2hrs training + skill test.


Can someone please give me a hint...

Thanks

[FloaterNorthWest]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the IR a standalone rating and isn't type specific so can be renewed on any type you are rated on during a LPC.

Are you rated on the 412? If not you would cover it during your type rating training.

[QTG]

AMC2 FCL.725(a)(e) - 2 hours IR training on type + Proficiency Check

[paco]

The EASA IR is type specific for helicopters

phil

[FloaterNorthWest]

Phil,

So no cross-crediting in accordance with Part-FCL Appendix 8?

I know in industry if a pilot holds an IR on more than one type then the IR is only usually revalidated annually on one and then cross-credited to the other. The next year the IR is revalidated on the other type and so on.

I've been away from the books for some time so it may have changed in that time.

[paco]

Ah, good point - you will probably need to speak to an IR ATO about that - Helicopter Services springs to mind.

Phil