Second crash R66 South Dakota
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Jackop3. Main Rotor to Tailcone contact is consistent with Low RPM Rotor Stall.
i.e "cause and effect"
The worst type of "experienced pilot" flying two bladed helicopters is; high time fixwing pilots with low rotary hours.
i.e "cause and effect"
The worst type of "experienced pilot" flying two bladed helicopters is; high time fixwing pilots with low rotary hours.
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"Jackop3. Main Rotor to Tailcone contact is consistent with Low RPM Rotor Stall.
i.e "cause and effect""
i.e "cause and effect""
"The worst type of "experienced pilot" flying two bladed helicopters is; high time fixwing pilots with low rotary hours"
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NTSB PRE-REPORT
NTSB Identification: CEN12FA001
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, October 01, 2011 in Philip, SD
Aircraft: ROBINSON HELICOPTER CO R66, registration: N266CY
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On October 1, 2011, about 1255 mountain daylight time, a Robinson Helicopter, R66, N266CY, was substantially damaged during an in-flight breakup while in cruise flight near Philip, South Dakota. The private pilot, the sole occupant, was fatally injured. The helicopter was registered to and operated by P P & J LLC., of Gillette, Wyoming. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and a flight plan was not filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 personal flight. The cross-country flight originated from the Gillette-Campbell County Airport (GCC), around 1105 en route to Winner Regional Airport (ICR), Winner, South Dakota.
A friend of the pilot was at GCC when the pilot was preparing for the flight. The friend reported that the pilot appeared to be in good health and was excited about the flight. He further reported that the pilot had ?topped off? the helicopter with fuel before departure. Approximately an hour and a half later the pilot called the friend during the flight. The pilot reported that he was between Wall, South Dakota, and Philip, South Dakota, and inquired if the Philip Airport (PHP), had jet fuel available. The friend called the pilot back a few minutes later to say PHP did not have jet fuel. The friend stated that the pilot did not report any anomalies with the helicopter during either conversation.
An eyewitness located approximately 2 miles northwest of the accident site, observed the helicopter flying from west to east, along a river, at approximately 1,000 feet above ground level (AGL). The eyewitness reported that he heard nothing abnormal as the helicopter flew past him. He then observed the helicopter make a turn to the left before it flew out of view behind trees. About 20-30 seconds later, he heard a noise that he described as sounding like an ?exploding propane tank.?
The helicopter wreckage and debris came to rest on rolling ranch land and was spread out over an area approximately 1,520 feet long by 600 feet wide. The main rotor head, with attached blades, came to rest 513 feet from the main wreckage. The main wreckage consisting of the fuselage, engine, and tail rotor assembly, had sustained substantial thermal damage from a post crash fire.
At 1255, the automated weather observing system at PHP, located 3 nautical miles northeast from the site of the accident, reported wind from 150 degrees at 6 knots, 10 statute miles visibility, clear of clouds, temperature 84 degrees Fahrenheit, dew point 39 degrees Fahrenheit, and a barometric pressure setting of 30.00 inches of Mercury.
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, October 01, 2011 in Philip, SD
Aircraft: ROBINSON HELICOPTER CO R66, registration: N266CY
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On October 1, 2011, about 1255 mountain daylight time, a Robinson Helicopter, R66, N266CY, was substantially damaged during an in-flight breakup while in cruise flight near Philip, South Dakota. The private pilot, the sole occupant, was fatally injured. The helicopter was registered to and operated by P P & J LLC., of Gillette, Wyoming. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and a flight plan was not filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 personal flight. The cross-country flight originated from the Gillette-Campbell County Airport (GCC), around 1105 en route to Winner Regional Airport (ICR), Winner, South Dakota.
A friend of the pilot was at GCC when the pilot was preparing for the flight. The friend reported that the pilot appeared to be in good health and was excited about the flight. He further reported that the pilot had ?topped off? the helicopter with fuel before departure. Approximately an hour and a half later the pilot called the friend during the flight. The pilot reported that he was between Wall, South Dakota, and Philip, South Dakota, and inquired if the Philip Airport (PHP), had jet fuel available. The friend called the pilot back a few minutes later to say PHP did not have jet fuel. The friend stated that the pilot did not report any anomalies with the helicopter during either conversation.
An eyewitness located approximately 2 miles northwest of the accident site, observed the helicopter flying from west to east, along a river, at approximately 1,000 feet above ground level (AGL). The eyewitness reported that he heard nothing abnormal as the helicopter flew past him. He then observed the helicopter make a turn to the left before it flew out of view behind trees. About 20-30 seconds later, he heard a noise that he described as sounding like an ?exploding propane tank.?
The helicopter wreckage and debris came to rest on rolling ranch land and was spread out over an area approximately 1,520 feet long by 600 feet wide. The main rotor head, with attached blades, came to rest 513 feet from the main wreckage. The main wreckage consisting of the fuselage, engine, and tail rotor assembly, had sustained substantial thermal damage from a post crash fire.
At 1255, the automated weather observing system at PHP, located 3 nautical miles northeast from the site of the accident, reported wind from 150 degrees at 6 knots, 10 statute miles visibility, clear of clouds, temperature 84 degrees Fahrenheit, dew point 39 degrees Fahrenheit, and a barometric pressure setting of 30.00 inches of Mercury.
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Hey Dick
The information I received is that the crash was due to mechanical failure. Perhaps you should respect the deceased and not try to blame them without the facts, as their family reads this.
The information I received is that the crash was due to mechanical failure. Perhaps you should respect the deceased and not try to blame them without the facts, as their family reads this.
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Kylesampson:
Why not wait until the NTSB have completed their investigations before making what can only be at this early stage is an assumption, no matter how well informed.
Why not wait until the NTSB have completed their investigations before making what can only be at this early stage is an assumption, no matter how well informed.
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Just stating the assumption the NTSB told the family. If that later changes so be it. I was just saying that people blaming this on the pilot at this stage is inappropriate. I was just trying to inform those that are flying the R66 to have it checked out before waiting a year for the report. Being safe is better then the alternative.
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"The main rotor head, with attached blades, came to rest 513 feet from the main wreckage".
kylesampson
Having dealt with the NTSB on numerous occasions, I am pretty sure they do NOT make assumptions---especially to the family, until the investigation is complete.
Is what you say a FACT, especially based upon this comment:
As was stated on this site before, I believe that some threads on Rotorheads are for the exchange of views on the factors that may have led to unfortunate incidents and accidents. If you're not prepared to accept the views or share in the speculation posted by others on this thread, then with the greatest respect, stay away! after all--- YOU are the one who started it:
SEE HERE
Just stating the assumption the NTSB told the family.
Is what you say a FACT, especially based upon this comment:
Perhaps you should respect the deceased and not try to blame them without the facts, as their family reads this.
What I have been told so far is that the rotor came off in mid flight. I just wanted to give other owners a heads up.
In previous Low RRPM Rotor Stall Mast Bumping accidents the Rotor stayed on longer than the tail boom in most instances, sometimes it stayed on until the ground.
However if it was a straghtforward (Pushover type) Low G Mast Bumping w/o low RRPM it could lead and has done so in the past to a loss of the complete Rotor assy.
The only other 'typical' reason for losing the entire head is M/R blade fracture. But in this case you would expect one blade separated (at least partly) from the hub.
So far this case does not seem to show completely untypical signs for a Robbie accident.
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I am not sure what the term "Robby cut" means, however if it means Main Rotor to Tailcone contact that has severed the Tailcone, then this is usually consistent with "Low RPM Rotor Stall"
Low 'G' mast bumping can cause a failure of the main rotor drive shaft, which allows the rotor hub and blade Assy to part from the aircraft, complete with a part of the drive shaft.
Low 'G' mast bumping can cause a failure of the main rotor drive shaft, which allows the rotor hub and blade Assy to part from the aircraft, complete with a part of the drive shaft.
kylesampson
Firstly, I am NOT Gordo.
Secondly, exactly WHERE did you use the word "assumption" in your initial post?
Like I said---this website is for professional pilots "for the exchange of views on the factors that may have led to unfortunate incidents and accidents".
I suggest you are NOT a professional pilot, therefore if you are not willing to
Also...READ the name of this site CAREFULLY:
Good bye.
Firstly, I am NOT Gordo.
Secondly, exactly WHERE did you use the word "assumption" in your initial post?
Second crash R66 South Dakota
I'm not a pilot I just wanted to get this out there. My wifes uncle just died in a R66 in South Dakota. Anyone who has one better wait and see what happens in this investigation. What I have been told so far is that the rotor came off in mid flight. I just wanted to give other owners a heads up.
I'm not a pilot I just wanted to get this out there. My wifes uncle just died in a R66 in South Dakota. Anyone who has one better wait and see what happens in this investigation. What I have been told so far is that the rotor came off in mid flight. I just wanted to give other owners a heads up.
I suggest you are NOT a professional pilot, therefore if you are not willing to
accept the views or share in the speculation posted by others on this thread, then with the greatest respect, stay away!
Good bye.
Last edited by Gordy; 23rd Oct 2011 at 17:33. Reason: Added Pprune Logo
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Gordy,
Well said.
Maybe you can have a go at the bloke on this thread, (Jackop3), http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/457...-colombia.html, who clearly is not a pilot and is pushing some ridiculous ill informed rubbish and speculation.
There are some really good posters on PPRUNE and that guy is NOT one of them.
Arrrj
Well said.
Maybe you can have a go at the bloke on this thread, (Jackop3), http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/457...-colombia.html, who clearly is not a pilot and is pushing some ridiculous ill informed rubbish and speculation.
There are some really good posters on PPRUNE and that guy is NOT one of them.
Arrrj
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Damn Gordo I hope all pilots aren't as dumb as you. Did I say I used it in the original post? The assumption was in response to foxmeads post.
You are correct I am not a pilot and you don't have to assume or suggest it. Hell I told you that right off and I hope the R66 is a perfectly sound machine. Furthermore, if I would have known that a lot of pilots were such pompous asses, I would have not tried to help them.
I'm sure that you will never own a R66 so this will never concern you. If you were such an all wise all knowing pilot you would be out flying or consulting rather then blogging on a rumor site as you so eloquently pointed out in the title.
Bye the way please stay out of Wyoming we don't take kindly to people who are from a location that believes in butt sex with non homo-sapiens
You are correct I am not a pilot and you don't have to assume or suggest it. Hell I told you that right off and I hope the R66 is a perfectly sound machine. Furthermore, if I would have known that a lot of pilots were such pompous asses, I would have not tried to help them.
I'm sure that you will never own a R66 so this will never concern you. If you were such an all wise all knowing pilot you would be out flying or consulting rather then blogging on a rumor site as you so eloquently pointed out in the title.
Bye the way please stay out of Wyoming we don't take kindly to people who are from a location that believes in butt sex with non homo-sapiens
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from kylesampson
Bye the way please stay out of Wyoming we don't take kindly to people who are from a location that believes in butt sex with non homo-sapiens
Bye the way please stay out of Wyoming we don't take kindly to people who are from a location that believes in butt sex with non homo-sapiens
most if not nearly all folks here aren't in the line of delivering threats, that's not to say we don't sometimes take the mickey right out of each other, it happens regularly to me i'm sure.
gordy is a highly experienced profressional in his field of endeavour and even not knowing him it's easy to see he's well respected as well as with a lovely fiancee.
you could perhaps notify here and PM him direct
cheers tet
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Tet, I think he was having a dig at Gordy's location (Sodomy non sapiens!), hence the big dopey smiley face at the end of it. This thread however, HAS come close to running it's course IMHO.
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The only other 'typical' reason for losing the entire head is M/R blade fracture. But in this case you would expect one blade separated (at least partly) from the hub.
So far this case does not seem to show completely untypical signs for a Robbie accident.
So far this case does not seem to show completely untypical signs for a Robbie accident.
And anyone who is not comfortable with the discussion here, perhaps should leave the thread or even the website. I am a pilot who is gonna be flying this machine in 60 days, so the discussion will continue.
Last edited by Soave_Pilot; 24th Oct 2011 at 10:04.
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Soave_Pilot
With a caveat that I am not part of the accident investigation team for the 1st or 2nd R66 accident, therefore I can pass on only what I have been told and that information is as good as it gets apart from the NTSB I would like to re iterate.
The first R66 accident is consistent with a Low RPM Rotor Stall accident, this in its self is usually due to mishandling the controls.
The second R66 accident is consistent with Low 'G' this in its self is usually due to mishandling the controls.
I hope that you are aware of how you can get yourself into these situations and the incipient stages of these Critical Flight Conditions.
Treat the helicopter with the respect it is due and you will love flyiing the R66 for a long time.
Fly safely
With a caveat that I am not part of the accident investigation team for the 1st or 2nd R66 accident, therefore I can pass on only what I have been told and that information is as good as it gets apart from the NTSB I would like to re iterate.
The first R66 accident is consistent with a Low RPM Rotor Stall accident, this in its self is usually due to mishandling the controls.
The second R66 accident is consistent with Low 'G' this in its self is usually due to mishandling the controls.
I hope that you are aware of how you can get yourself into these situations and the incipient stages of these Critical Flight Conditions.
Treat the helicopter with the respect it is due and you will love flyiing the R66 for a long time.
Fly safely