uncertified helicopters
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: swansea, wales
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I have heard that there are many home built kits that remain unbuilt because fo the committment and hours that are required and tooling needed to complete them. Those that do get them up and running seem to frequently achive this at the expense of relationship(s) marriages etc?
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Home builds
Our industry has enough problems and bad press even when operated by the biggest operators in the world, supervised by the worlds biggest oil companies and all their quality systems and processes , home build cars are dangerous, home build fixed wing are more dangerous and home build heli's are seriously dangerous!!
People should not be allowed to build flying machines in their back garden and then fly over schools , playgrounds and suburban areas, it is too dangerous, the stats and the history speak for themselves
KM
People should not be allowed to build flying machines in their back garden and then fly over schools , playgrounds and suburban areas, it is too dangerous, the stats and the history speak for themselves
KM
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
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I don't think people are allowed to fly over built up areas as you describe, at least not unlesss they are high enough to avoid them should there be a problem.
Personally I don't think governments should be allowed to prevent anyone from flying a homebuilt, like the helicycle, which in the UK at least is effectively barred by the system of approvals required(almost a certification) for issuing a permit to fly.
The Rotorway was first approved due to 'accumulated sufficient experience of safe operation, and has been shown not to possess unacceptably hazardous features.'
The CAA should allow us to go back to that standard for issuing Permits.
Or, if a kit is approved in one European Country, it should also be approved in all others.
Just my thoughts...
Personally I don't think governments should be allowed to prevent anyone from flying a homebuilt, like the helicycle, which in the UK at least is effectively barred by the system of approvals required(almost a certification) for issuing a permit to fly.
The Rotorway was first approved due to 'accumulated sufficient experience of safe operation, and has been shown not to possess unacceptably hazardous features.'
The CAA should allow us to go back to that standard for issuing Permits.
Or, if a kit is approved in one European Country, it should also be approved in all others.
Just my thoughts...
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: england
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"home build heli's are seriously dangerous"....
When you've got a minute kennethr can you post a link to the stats and history showing these garden built deathtraps crashing onto those schools, playgrounds and suburban areas.
Cheers
When you've got a minute kennethr can you post a link to the stats and history showing these garden built deathtraps crashing onto those schools, playgrounds and suburban areas.
Cheers
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bedfordshire, UK
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They don't drop out of the sky, sometimes people roll them over though, then they get out and rebuild them. If I'm not mistaken that's Ian King with Mr. Evans in the video. I had the pleasure of cuddling upto him in a 162F and when he closed the throttle and counted to 5 (he said he could sometimes get to 7) I would already have been dead in the R22. For the detractors, what about all the hot air balloons, microlights and ancient certified junk flying above schools, orphanages and even more importantly, real ale pubs?
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ventura Ca U.S.A.
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I'm glad to be in the U.S.A. to build & fly Experimental Air craft
, Anyone who doesn't like it can stuff it
, In all the years working with both types of Type Certificate Production & Home builts. I would trust a new Home built over a TCed machine,why? The home built has a caring owner and the T.C. machine is built by the lowest bidder often with only a GED.
Seen a few new R-22s chuck blades,The AW 139 tear it self apart, the S-61 chuck parts,Astars become falling stars-Sikorsky 92s splatting ,heck Look at all the Airworthyness Directives,
You little girls with the panties in a Bunch crying "Don't build & fly it you'll kill your self!" Give me a Break.
It all comes down to the builder/pilot and the workman ship is ofter better than a production piece, How many kit helicopters cruise @160 mph?
See Rotormouse.mov youtube.
, Anyone who doesn't like it can stuff it, In all the years working with both types of Type Certificate Production & Home builts. I would trust a new Home built over a TCed machine,why? The home built has a caring owner and the T.C. machine is built by the lowest bidder often with only a GED.Seen a few new R-22s chuck blades,The AW 139 tear it self apart, the S-61 chuck parts,Astars become falling stars-Sikorsky 92s splatting ,heck Look at all the Airworthyness Directives, You little girls with the panties in a Bunch crying "Don't build & fly it you'll kill your self!" Give me a Break.It all comes down to the builder/pilot and the workman ship is ofter better than a production piece, How many kit helicopters cruise @160 mph?
See Rotormouse.mov youtube.
Join Date: Jul 2010
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For God's sake, hillberg, learn about capitalization, punctuation, spacing, and spelling, if you're going to insult people. You're embarrassing the rest of us Americans.
Get that right and people can understand your post well enough to point out all the logical fallacies it contains.
I think they're looking for you over at JustHelicopters.
Get that right and people can understand your post well enough to point out all the logical fallacies it contains.
I think they're looking for you over at JustHelicopters.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Don't you love internet forums? From a reasonable question about flying helicopters to Zero Tolerance on spelling and punctuation in a few days.
No comments until everyone has read Eats shoots and leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation: Amazon.co.uk: Lynne Truss: Books
No comments until everyone has read Eats shoots and leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation: Amazon.co.uk: Lynne Truss: Books
Join Date: Apr 2004
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UK CAA
The UK CAA is way more restrictive in homebuilding than other countries.
Rather than allow self regulation by a non-government organization, like PFA/LAA for fixed-wing, the CAA want to severely restrict helicopter homebuilding by managing it themselves.
I am so glad I left the UK as it's allowed my interest in aviation to flourish but I fear the day I return as I would probably have to sell up my airplanes and helicopter rather than subject myself to the British regs.
Correct me if i am wrong I hear that although you may put together an approved kit (only Rotorway) you can't work on it yourself after completion - only a certified helicopter mechanic can do that! - what an insult!
Even though you may have a PPL(H) you won't get to perform it's first flight - that's a job for a CAA approved test pilot- insult number 2.
Further, regulations require it require it to be flight testing each year by a CAA approved test pilot - why? insult number 3.
All these third parties are going charge large fees for their signature and for the insurance policies that cover them.
I can't help but think that in the UK it would be cheaper to buy a certified helicopter than to tackle this absurdly restrictive system but who wants to own an inferior, outdated production helicopter when they could say take two thirds of a standard rotorway kit, add 3inch headroom, add one jet turbine and one LCD multifunction flight computer and have a self made private helicopter more advanced than a EC120 for less than 70,000 quid. My friend has built exactly this and it's a dream to behold - and he has the right, as builder, to perform yearly maintenance. He can sell it but only then must the owner seek a certified mechanic. Very logical.
I hear the UK rotorway dealer performs a yearly 200 point check! My god how much is that going to cost or take? I don't think my engineer checks more than 20 things on my helicopter yearly and that costs 1000 quid = 1 to 1.5 man days. what's going on there?
Sounds like aviation in the UK is really repressed. How can you guys tolerate this? Do they slap the same restriction on gyroplane homebuilders? If not - why should homebuilt helicopters be treat any differently?
Natural selection is alive and kicking but not in the UK it seems.
OOW
Rather than allow self regulation by a non-government organization, like PFA/LAA for fixed-wing, the CAA want to severely restrict helicopter homebuilding by managing it themselves.
I am so glad I left the UK as it's allowed my interest in aviation to flourish but I fear the day I return as I would probably have to sell up my airplanes and helicopter rather than subject myself to the British regs.
Correct me if i am wrong I hear that although you may put together an approved kit (only Rotorway) you can't work on it yourself after completion - only a certified helicopter mechanic can do that! - what an insult!
Even though you may have a PPL(H) you won't get to perform it's first flight - that's a job for a CAA approved test pilot- insult number 2.
Further, regulations require it require it to be flight testing each year by a CAA approved test pilot - why? insult number 3.
All these third parties are going charge large fees for their signature and for the insurance policies that cover them.
I can't help but think that in the UK it would be cheaper to buy a certified helicopter than to tackle this absurdly restrictive system but who wants to own an inferior, outdated production helicopter when they could say take two thirds of a standard rotorway kit, add 3inch headroom, add one jet turbine and one LCD multifunction flight computer and have a self made private helicopter more advanced than a EC120 for less than 70,000 quid. My friend has built exactly this and it's a dream to behold - and he has the right, as builder, to perform yearly maintenance. He can sell it but only then must the owner seek a certified mechanic. Very logical.
I hear the UK rotorway dealer performs a yearly 200 point check! My god how much is that going to cost or take? I don't think my engineer checks more than 20 things on my helicopter yearly and that costs 1000 quid = 1 to 1.5 man days. what's going on there?
Sounds like aviation in the UK is really repressed. How can you guys tolerate this? Do they slap the same restriction on gyroplane homebuilders? If not - why should homebuilt helicopters be treat any differently?
Natural selection is alive and kicking but not in the UK it seems.
OOW
Last edited by outofwhack; 31st Oct 2011 at 17:25.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Read the content & not how it's packaged. When YOU build a helicopter from vapor & bits "n" pieces. Good for you,(Or design the Jet Exec) Now get it to cruise at 160 MPH. Thats another subject.
When YOU build a helicopter from vapor & bits "n" pieces. Good for you,(Or design the Jet Exec) Now get it to cruise at 160 MPH. Thats another subject.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Hillberg - you've totally lost me! I can't make any sence from your post.
Aerobot - please add grammar and meaning to the list your keeping on hillberg. Ta.
OOW
Aerobot - please add grammar and meaning to the list your keeping on hillberg. Ta.
OOW
Join Date: Aug 2006
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I don't think my engineer checks more than 20 things on my helicopter yearly and that costs 1000 quid....
Thats Stan Fosters Turbinator Helicycle the build quality is SUPERB.
He also builds Staircases which are dreams come true.
Anyone who can do wood & metal gets my vote
He also builds Staircases which are dreams come true.
Anyone who can do wood & metal gets my vote
Last edited by 500e; 1st Nov 2011 at 11:15.
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OOW,
You're about right with the UK CAA.
But I think the builder can perform maintenance, just needs to be checked and signed of by a CAA approved engineer.
Not many about willing to do that unfortunately, so most go back to the main dealer for maintenance.
And yes, need a yearly sign-off. And mandatory insurance to fly.
FYI, the Main Dealer has been attempting since 2008 to get approval for the Talon changes. I think it's almost complete, but 3 1/2 years ???
At least this'll mean almost of the Rotorway's engineering will have been checked to CAA standards, except perhaps the engine and blades.
So fair to say 70% certified ? :-)
sw
You're about right with the UK CAA.
But I think the builder can perform maintenance, just needs to be checked and signed of by a CAA approved engineer.
Not many about willing to do that unfortunately, so most go back to the main dealer for maintenance.
And yes, need a yearly sign-off. And mandatory insurance to fly.
FYI, the Main Dealer has been attempting since 2008 to get approval for the Talon changes. I think it's almost complete, but 3 1/2 years ???
At least this'll mean almost of the Rotorway's engineering will have been checked to CAA standards, except perhaps the engine and blades.
So fair to say 70% certified ? :-)
sw
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Mandatory insurance? I hope that's just third party.
How much do you typically have to pay?
My certified helicopter's third party is about aud1300 and the charter component brings it up to about aud1800 for about aud5million coverage. Charter coverage is mandatory for covering paying passengers when flying under an AOC.
Is there a helicopter homebuilder organization within the uk?
I don't think the PFA/LAA have any delegated authority for rotary wing or do they?
Who do the gyro guys have regulating them?
OOW
How much do you typically have to pay?
My certified helicopter's third party is about aud1300 and the charter component brings it up to about aud1800 for about aud5million coverage. Charter coverage is mandatory for covering paying passengers when flying under an AOC.
Is there a helicopter homebuilder organization within the uk?
I don't think the PFA/LAA have any delegated authority for rotary wing or do they?
Who do the gyro guys have regulating them?
OOW