Huey & subsequent Blackhawk crashes: Thailand

[Savoia]

.
Bangkok, July 17th, 2011

The crash of a UH-1H 'Huey' helicopter on a rescue mission has killed all five Thai Army officers aboard the chopper, officials in Bangkok said.


A UH1 helicopter similar to one which crashed in Thailand on Saturday killing all on-board

The helicopter, from Thap Phraya Sua Camp in Ratchaburi's Suan Phung district, crashed into a mountain in bad weather on Saturday while on a mission to remove civilians that had been trapped in Kaeng Krachan National Park, the Bangkok Post reported.

Military troops were sent to the area to recover the bodies.

The dead soldiers are: Maj. Kitisak Chin-iam (First pilot), Lt. Pratya Nualsri (Second Pilot), Maj. Kitiphum Ekkaphan (Deputy Commander of the 2nd Infantry Battalion of the 9th Infantry Regiment), Sgt. Maj. Rangsan Polsaibua and Sgt. Maj. Narongdet Pongnumkul (both Flight Mechanics).

It was unclear if the helicopter had already picked up the civilians when it went down.

Huey crash kills 5 military officers

[jonwilly]

Bad weather hampers helicopter crash recovery


By The Nation
Published on July 18, 2011





The charred bodies of all five personnel found in the helicopter that crashed and burned near the Burmese border on Saturday cannot be retrieved yet because of continuing bad weather conditions, the Army said yesterday.


One body was stuck inside the UH1H's passenger cabin that smashed into the ridge of the Tanaosri range while four bodies were in the pilot compartment that fell down the slope into Burmese territory.
Major Kitiphoom Ekkaphan, chief of operations, has been publicly identified but not the four crewmembers.
No news reports have been made about any radio communications with a ground unit over technical problems before the chopper lost contact, but visibility was in general poor because of the heavy rain and thick fog in the area, Army sources said.
Search and recovery operations were conducted by four helicopters including two newer UH06 Black Hawks with the assistance of forest rangers and Border Patrol police.
The Ninth Army Division, to which the UH1H helicopter was assigned, also dispatched ground search parties.
The doomed aircraft was providing logistical support and supplies to a military task force cracking down on forest encroachment, including farming by hilltribe people in protected areas.
The crash site was deep in the dense jungle between Phetchaburi and Ratchaburi, which is the source of Phetchaburi River.
Torrential downpours had earlier forced a halt to the sorties after a group of soldiers and media members got lost and had to be rescued last week.

[Phil Space]

They've just lost another one in similar circumstance at the same place!
This quote say's it all

Army Spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd confirmed that the Black Hawk helicopter crashed. He said the helicopter was a new one so the poor visibility was a likely cause of the crash.

Thai Black Hawk down
By The Nation
Published on July 19, 2011

A helicopter sent out to recover five bodies of victims of a helicopter, which crashed over weekend in Phetchaburi, is feared to have crashed.

There were reportedly nine persons on board the rescue helicopter that is believed to have exploded and crashed.

The crew included soldiers and TV personnel.

Fate of the 9 on board the rescue Blackhawk feared to have crashed remains unknown.

A major general was reportedly among those on board the Blackhawk. His subordinates were victims of the earlier crash.

A major general was reportedly among those on board the Blackhawk. His subordinates were victims of the earlier crash.

Army Spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd confirmed that the Black Hawk helicopter crashed. He said the helicopter was a new one so the poor visibility was a likely cause of the crash.

[Outwest]

Thai Helicopter crashed once again in Myanmar

BURMA, 19 JULY 2011 (NNT) - After the crash of a Thai army Black Hawk helicopter, 9 people on board are reported missing, including the commander of the 9th Infantry Division. The helicopter crashed inside Myanmar early today.

According to an army source, Major General Tawan Ruangsri, commander of the 9th Infantry Division, and a number of army officers were flying to retrieve the bodies of five soldiers who were killed in a helicopter crash in Kaeng Krachan National Park in Phetchaburi province, bordering Myanmar, on Saturday. Also on board the aircraft were two reporters and 2 mechanics.

The Black Hawk crashed inside a forest in Myanmar. 9 people who were on board remain missing and their fate is yet to be known.

[Phil Space]

I'd be very surprised if the helicopter came down over the border in Burma.
The Thai Army may be inept but not that stupid.

Updated to include this from the Bangkok Post
Black Hawk helicopter missing on Burma border
Published: 19/07/2011 at 05:05 PM

A Thai army Black Hawk helicopter with nine people aboard, including the commander of the Kanchanaburi-based 9th Infantry Division, is missing and believed to have crashed near the Burmese border on Tuesday.

The fate of the nine passengers was still not known.

Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd, the army spokesman, said the helicopter was on a mission to retrieve the bodies of five soldiers killed when another helicopter crashed in Kaeng Krachan National Park in Suan Phung district of Phetchaburi province on Saturday.

Reports said the Black Hawk departed an air base in Kaeng Krachan district about 11.30am, heading to Kaeng Krachan park, which is on the border with Burma.
On board were Maj-Gen Tawan Ruangsri, the 9th Infantry Division chief and commander of the Surasee Task Force, Maj Prapan Jiamsoongnoen, the 1st pilot, Maj Chuphan Polwan, the 2nd pilot, Sgt-Maj Somkid Wongtoksaeng, the senior flight mechanic, Sgt Aram Wongsing, the second mechanic, Capt Jate Sudchai, Capt Chakraphan Bamrungphuet, L-Cpl Itthisak Hinasuthi, and Sornwichai Kongtannukul, a TV Channel 5 cameraman.

The Black Hawk was accompanied by two helicopters. One was a Natural Resource and Environment Ministry helicopter with Chaiwat Limlikit-aksorn, chief of the Kaeng Krachan National Park, and two officials on board. The other was a helicopter operated by the Agriculture and Cooperatives Ministry.

The three helicopters were flying about 1,100 metres above mean sea level and were approaching the landing zone where the bodies of the five army men were to be picked up when the weather suddenly turned bad.

Dark clouds moved in, cloaking the area, and rain began to fall.

The helicopters operated by of the Natural Resources and Environment and Agriculture ministries decided to turned back and land at separate landing pads in the vicinity.

Only the army Black Hawk proceeded to the target landing zone in the national park.

About 11.55am all radio contact with the Black Hawk suddenly ceased.

A radio centre at a place called Ton Nam Phet reported that a loud explosion was heard from a spot near where the first helicopter crashed on Saturday.

The centre reported that the Black Hawk was believed to have crashed into the mountain which claimed the first helicopter on Saturday, possibly 1-2 kilometres on the Burmese side of the border.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said he had been been briefed, but little was known. The army was investigating, he said.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, in charge of security affairs, said army chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha reported to him that it was not yet clear whether the possible crash site was in Thailand or Burma.

There were still no reports of the fate of the passengers, he said.

[jonwilly]

The Independent UK


Two helicopters crash in Thailand



An army helicopter carrying nine people crashed in a hilly jungle along Thailand's border with Burma today while on a mission to retrieve the bodies of five soldiers killed in another helicopter accident at the weekend.
The US-made Black Hawk helicopter went down in poor visibility, raising to 14 the expected casualties from two air accidents in three days in western Phetchaburi province, army officials said.
The two helicopters had flown over a rugged, rain-soaked region that was hard for rescue teams to reach on foot. On board the Black Hawk were a television cameraman and eight army officers.
A Vietnam War era helicopter that crashed on Sunday killing five people had been despatched to the area to find government officials lost while working in the thick jungle.
Among officers presumed killed today were Major General Tawan Ruengsri, a regimental commander of forces west of Bangkok.
"Two groups of people in the area heard the Black Hawk's explosion, but the fate of those on board is yet to be determined," said army spokesman Sansern Kaewkamnerd.
Military helicopter accidents are not uncommon in Thailand, with three Bell UH-1H helicopters crashing in the space of four months from June-October 2008, due to engine trouble or bad weather.



BKK Post
Black Hawk helicopter missing on Burma border

• Published: 19/07/2011 at 05:05 PM
• Online news: Local News

A Thai army Black Hawk helicopter with nine people aboard, including the commander of the Kanchanaburi-based 9th Infantry Division, is missing and believed to have crashed near the Burmese border on Tuesday.
The fate of the nine passengers was still not known.
Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd, the army spokesman, said the helicopter was on a mission to retrieve the bodies of five soldiers killed when another helicopter crashed in Kaeng Krachan National Park in Suan Phung district of Phetchaburi province on Saturday.
Reports said the Black Hawk departed an air base in Kaeng Krachan district about 11.30am, heading to Kaeng Krachan park, which is on the border with Burma.
Maj-Gen Tawan Ruangsri, the 9th Infantry Division commander

On board were Maj-Gen Tawan Ruangsri, the 9th Infantry Division chief and commander of the Surasee Task Force, Maj Prapan Jiamsoongnoen, the 1st pilot, Maj Chuphan Polwan, the 2nd pilot, Sgt-Maj Somkid Wongtoksaeng, the senior flight mechanic, Sgt Aram Wongsing, the second mechanic, Capt Jate Sudchai, Capt Chakraphan Bamrungphuet, L-Cpl Itthisak Hinasuthi, and Sornwichai Kongtannukul, a TV Channel 5 cameraman.
The Black Hawk was accompanied by two helicopters. One was a Natural Resource and Environment Ministry helicopter with Chaiwat Limlikit-aksorn, chief of the Kaeng Krachan National Park, and two officials on board. The other was a helicopter operated by the Agriculture and Cooperatives Ministry.
The three helicopters were flying about 1,100 metres above mean sea level and were approaching the landing zone where the bodies of the five army men were to be picked up when the weather suddenly turned bad.
Dark clouds moved in, cloaking the area, and rain began to fall.
The helicopters operated by of the Natural Resources and Environment and Agriculture ministries decided to turned back and land at separate landing pads in the vicinity.
Only the army Black Hawk proceeded to the target landing zone in the national park.
About 11.55am all radio contact with the Black Hawk suddenly ceased.
A radio centre at a place called Ton Nam Phet reported that a loud explosion was heard from a spot near where the first helicopter crashed on Saturday.
The centre reported that the Black Hawk was believed to have crashed into the mountain which claimed the first helicopter on Saturday, possibly 1-2 kilometres on the Burmese side of the border.
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said he had been been briefed, but little was known. The army was investigating, he said.
Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, in charge of security affairs, said army chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha reported to him that it was not yet clear whether the possible crash site was in Thailand or Burma.
There were still no reports of the fate of the passengers, he said."


john

[Savoia]

.
Yes, sadly confirmed that there is now also a Royal Thai Army Blackhawk down on the Thai side of the Burmese border presumably lost in poor vis during an operation to recover bodies from the Huey.

Thai Military Helicopter Crashes During Rescue Mission for Earlier Chopper Crash | NYCAviation

[Ye Olde Pilot]

Par for the course with the Thai Army.

[Agaricus bisporus]

They seem to like carrying lots of senior officers around, don't they?

That may put a lot of pressure on the pilots to "get it done" in a society where "face" is important. I note the environmental agency aircraft were less bold.

[Thai Pom]

^ Totally agree. The pilot is only PIC until the general behind him tells him what to do. A sad part of the culture I am afraid.

[Fareastdriver]

During a military life in which i have been a VIP pilot regularly carrying 5 star generals and politicians up to Prime Minister level I have never forgotten whom their life depends on.
When an ADC or some senior officer pokes his nose in the cockpit and reminds me of how important my passengers are my answer is simple.

"They are not as important as me."

The Polish President's untimely end is an example of where a crew leaves their better judgment behind.

[Phil Space]

And as you well know Far East Driver,just like the terrible aircraft accident at Phuket, Phu Yai or big people are in control.So the smart kid with the flying skills and four bars is not in charge.

Asian flying is a different ball game.

[212man]

The 3rd in a week!

BANGKOK – Three military men were killed and a fourth injured on Sunday in the third Thai army helicopter crash in just eight days, a force spokesman said.

The Bell 212 chopper – part of the rescue mission following another helicopter crash on Wednesday – went down in Phetchaburi province, southwest of the capital Bangkok, bringing the death toll from the three incidents to 17.

“There were two pilots and two army technicians on board. One was injured and three were killed,” Colonel Sunsern Kaewkumnerd told AFP, adding that the cause was not yet clear.

Nine people were killed when a Black Hawk crashed on Wednesday as it flew to the site of an earlier crash on July 16, in which five died.

[Savoia]

.
Unbelievable and tragic!

I recall that in the UK there was a three cab pile-up many moons ago. The first (I think) toppled over in a white-out and the next two did something similar. RAF?

[Agaricus bisporus]

That sounds like the Fortuna Glacier incident during the recapture of South Georgia in the early phase of the Falklands War. For repeatedly operating his greatly overloaded Wessex away in utterly horrific conditions that had already bested two of the Navy's finest arctic trained pilots and saving numerous lives Lt Cdr Stanley recieved a well deserved DSO. The description of flying ice in the last para is - no pun intended - chilling.

But as the expression goes, there was a war on so there was good reason to go there in the first place. No comparison whatever with the Thai incident methinks.

Ice and snow

Before Santa Fe could land her troops the British Task Force was off South Georgia. The first order of business was to land the SAS mountain troop onto the Fortuna Glacier using 3 Wessex helicopters. A reconnaissance was made of the glacier at first light on 21 April by the radar-equipped Wessex HAS 3 helicopter from HMS Antrim and, although there was some wind and driving rain, conditions seemed suitable for the operation. The Wessex 3 returned to pick up four SAS men, and the Wessex HAS 5s from RFA Tidespring landed alternately on Antrim's deck to embark more. The plan was for the radar of the Wessex 3 to lead the 5s up onto the glacier by radar. The operation had to be abandoned after they encountered thick low cloud, driving rain and snow storms in Possession Bay. After some hours the weather improved, and a second attempt was made - the helicopters climbed onto the glacier in swirling low cloud. The visibility and navigation problems were made worse by frequent driving squalls of snow and sudden changes in wind speed and direction. Nevertheless, the three helicopters reached the landing zone and delivered their troops and their equipment. They returned to the ships by way of Possession and Antarctic Bays to avoid being sighted by Argentine observers.
During the night of 21 April the barometer fell sharply to 960 millibars and a force 10 snowstorm, which gusted to 70 knots, blew all night. The windchill factor on the glacier was dangerously high. The wind blew away the troops' shelters, and after nearly 24 hours in the blizzard and intense cold, the Mountain Troop men - under Captain John Hamilton of the Green Howards - radioed at 11:00 on 22 April that they had been unable to move off the glacier, that they could not survive another 12 hours and that frostbite cases or 'environmental casualties' were imminent.
It was decided to extract them using the same formation as before. Conditions were much worse than the day before, with swirling low clouds and driving snowstorms sweeping across the glacier. The wind was very changeable, gusting to 70 knots and then dropping unexpectedly to ten, which caused problems of severe mechanical turbulence over the mountains. It was decided to leave the Wessex 5s orbiting in Antarctic Bay while the Wessex 3 tried three times to get onto the glacier. The 5s landed on a spit of land to conserve fuel. In the end, all three helicopters had to return to their ships to refuel.
A second attempt was made immediately, and this was successful. The three helicopters climbed the glacier, sighted the smoke ignited by the troops to indicate their position and wind direction, and landed there during a welcome break in the weather. But as the SAS men were boarding, the wind blew strongly again and whipped up the snow. One of the Tidespring's Wessex 5s, call sign YA, had been the first to load troops and was ready for take-off, and so the pilot decided to lift immediately. As he took off and moved forward, he lost all external reference in the 'white out' and crashed, skidding for some 50 yards and ending up on his side. The other two helicopters had now embarked their troops, so they lifted and landed next to the crashed YA where they loaded its aircrew and soldiers. Half were taken onto the other Wessex 5, call sign YF, which dumped fuel to carry the extra load as did the Wessex 3, which had the other half.
Visibility by this time was practically zero, and the wind and snow had not abated. With the survivors on board, the Wessex 3, call sign 406, took off with YF following astern and they made their way down the glacier. Some seconds later, they traversed a small ridge, YF was seen to flare violently and strike the top. It rolled over onto its side and could not be contacted by radio. The overloaded 406 had to return to the ship some 30 miles away to the north. The passengers were disembarked and medical supplies and blankets were taken on board. The Wessex 3 then flew back towards the glacier, but the foul weather prevented landing. Contact was however made by radio with the crashed YF, and it was confirmed that there were no serious casualties.
The Wessex 3 returned to Antrim to wait for a break in the weather. About an hour later an opportunity presented itself, and 406 flew back to the glacier and managed to locate the survivors. They were embarked and, somewhat overloaded with 17 passengers and their kit, got back to Antrim some 35 minutes later. For these feats of incredible airmanship and dedication to duty, the pilot of 406, Lt. Commander Ian Stanley RN, was awarded the Distinguished Service Order.
On the same day as the SAS were landed on the glacier the SBS tried to land south of Grytviken. However, the 2 Scout helicopters transporting them could not climb over a mountain due to a blizzard, so they had to turn back. Several hours later another team was ready to be put ashore. This time they were to go in Gemini inflatable rubber assault boats, with their somewhat unreliable 30-kilowatt outboard motors. Using five boats, 15 men of 2 Section SBS and Boat Troop D Sqn 22 SAS set out in three-man patrols. Almost as soon as it was launched, the first boat's engine failed and it was swept out to sea. Another suffered the same fate in the Antarctic night. One crew was recovered after a 7 hour search by the Wessex HAS 3, the other boat managed to make a landfall on the last piece of land before the open sea. Such was the dedication and training of these troops that they waited for several days before they switched on their Sarbe (search and rescue beacon) in case its signals put the operation in jeopardy.
The other patrols landed successfully earlier on, just after midnight, at the north end of Sirling Valley. They reported just after midday that ice from the glacier was being blown into Cumberland East Bay and was puncturing the rubber skins of their Geminis, so they could not cross the bay to continue on mission. They were recovered during the night of 22 April, and the following day were put ashore in Moraine Fjord. During a lull in the blizzard on 23 April, Mountain Troop were landed again on the Fortuna Glacier, and this time were able to proceed with their mission.

[Savoia]

.
No real comparison intended Mushroom, other than the numbers of aircraft involved.

The Fortuna Glacier extraction was a heroic effort but I'm not sure if it's the incident I was thinking of which, if memory serves, occurred in the UK.

[212man]

Really? (post No 10.....)

[C.C.C.]

Originally Posted by Savoia

I recall that in the UK there was a three cab pile-up many moons ago. The first (I think) toppled over in a white-out and the next two did something similar. RAF?

Actually UK helicopters on exercise in Norway.

24/02/1982 XW234 Puma HC1 33 Sqn.
24/02/1982 XW905 Gazelle AH1 2Flt.
24/02/1982 XX378 Gazelle AH1 2Flt.

During exercises in Norway the Puma suffered a whiteout. It force-landed near Voss suffering only slight damage. XW905 was sent with ground crew to the Puma but also suffered a whiteout and crashed. XX378 was sent out to assist but suffered the same fate. XW905 was written off, while the others were repaired.

[Savoia]

.
CCC well done, that was indeed the incident. A Puma and two Gazelles. Had thought it was the UK but there you go .. grey cells n' all!

[Ye Olde Pilot]

Don't blame the pilot it's the helicopter that caused the crash

Three helicopters destroyed plus occupants in a week and all three accidents related.

In the case of the last incident with a Bell 212 engine failure was given as a primary cause of the accident. When I learnt to fly on a basic Robbo 30 years ago in Australia auto's down to the ground were done with the knowledge that there was limited blade inertia. When I moved up to the B206 the auto's became a piece of cake. The 212 has superb blade inertia. It also has 2 turbines.

Let's face facts on these three accidents. It is all down to pilot skills or lack of them. In countries such as Thailand your well connected parents buy you in to a student pilot role. Very often they are either high ranking military or government officials.

What sort of low grade instructor is going to risk his career and pension by failing a well connected student?

So they fly around until a problem occurs and if you have two of these numpty's flying together then all is well until something goes wrong.

And when it does everyone blames the machine which is why all the 212's are now grounded in Thailand.

In a few weeks time when the dust has settled things will return to normal until the next accident.

Saving face for the army by jumping to conclusions does not belong in aviation.



This from the Bangkok Post

The Bell 212 transport helicopter crashed in the morning while on its way to pick up the bodies of the nine victims in the Black Hawk helicopter crash on Tuesday.

The Black Hawk crashed in a Burmese forest opposite the Kaeng Krachan National Park during an operation to retrieve the bodies of five soldiers who had died in an earlier air crash involving a Huey helicopter.

The Bell helicopter caught fire on impact, killing first pilot Maj Theerawat Kaewkamol, second pilot Lt Burana Wanjai, and first mechanic SM 1 Wichian Janpat.

Second mechanic Sgt Pattanaporn Tonchan also on board was seriously injured.

Royal Thai Army Aviation commander Maj Gen Pitaya Krajangwong said after the incident that he had ordered all of the army's approximately 20 Bell helicopters grounded.

A thorough check would be conducted to assess whether they are safe to take off again, he added.

The army has ruled out bad weather as the cause of the accident.

On Saturday, the Bell helicopter took part in transporting the remains of the first two victims of the Black Hawk crash from Phetchaburi to the 9th Infantry Division in Kanchaburi.

The corpses were of 9th Infantry Division commander Maj Gen Tawan Ruangsri and Channel 5 television cameraman Sornwichai Kongtannikul.

After leaving Kanchanaburi, the Bell helicopter returned to Bangkok before heading back to Phetchaburi to pick up more corpses yesterday morning.

But it went down in Ban Nong Ket, about 12km from the office of the Kaeng Krachan National Park or about 50km from the Black Hawk crash site.