CH-53K
About a year ago, IOC was projected at 2018, first flight 2013. (Av week article.
That still on track?
EDIT:
U.S. GAO - Defense Acquisitions: CH-53K Helicopter Program Has Addressed Early Difficulties and Adopted Strategies to Address Future Risks
GAO report on CH-53K program progress, dated April 2011. IOC 2018 looks pretty firm.
A few tidbits from the report:
That still on track?
EDIT:
U.S. GAO - Defense Acquisitions: CH-53K Helicopter Program Has Addressed Early Difficulties and Adopted Strategies to Address Future Risks
GAO report on CH-53K program progress, dated April 2011. IOC 2018 looks pretty firm.
A few tidbits from the report:
- Because of a nearly 3-year delay in initial delivery of the CH-53K, program officials estimated that it will cost approximately $927 million more to continue to maintain the CH-53E legacy system.
- In another example, the program has a requirement that the CH-53K be transportable by C-5 aircraft. As with the CH-53E, because of its size, the CH-53K’s rotor and main gearbox will be removed from the aircraft’s body in order to fit within the height requirements of a C-5. The program office interpreted this as requiring that each CH-53K be shipped in its entirety on a single C-5 aircraft, including the removed rotor and gearbox. However, the contractor interpreted the requirement differently and proposed shipping all rotors and main gearboxes in another C-5 separate from the CH-53K body. Program officials did not accept this interpretation of the requirement and required the contractor to propose a solution in which each CH-53K aircraft would be shipped and arrive in its entirety in a single C-5 aircraft. Marine Corps officials commented that even though this requirement was interpreted differently, it was identified early in the systems engineering process and addressed.
- As part of that review, the program office identified several areas where costs could be deferred without decreasing capability, including three communications-related performance capabilities—Link-16, Variable Message Format, and Mode V software—that constituted part of the Net-Ready key performance parameter. Program officials estimated that this will result in over $100 million in cost deferral. Program officials explained that these software capabilities were not removed from the program’s road map, but rather have been deferred until after IOC. Originally, the program’s Operational Requirements Document called for all three capabilities to be fully integrated in fiscal year 2015.
- In July 2010, the program completed system integration—a period when individual components of a system are brought together—culminating with the program’s CDR. With completion of CDR, the program has demonstrated that the CH-53K design is stable—an indication that it is appropriate to proceed into fabrication, demonstration, and testing and that it is expected that the program can meet stated performance requirements within cost and schedule. At the time CDR was held, the program had released 93 percent of its engineering drawings, exceeding the best practice standard for the completion of system integration.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 15th Apr 2011 at 15:46.
Thread Starter
.
One has to admire the 'diplomaspeak' touted in Lonewolf's post between the USMC and SAC.
"Your honour, although Slappsbottom Borough Council displayed the 30 mph speed limit in the appropriate manner, my client, a respected driver, interpreted the restriction differently and which interpretation, we respectfully submit and given my client's longstanding association with automobile driving, ought to be considered."
Only? What a bargain!
This could of course be the reason why the USMC, in a reversal of private sector instigated public-private cooperation as nurtured by Google with NASA, are negotiating (with SAC's approval) royalties with Microsoft for the use of CGI involving the CH-53 in X-Box games.
It is hoped that sales of games incorporating CH-53 imagery will assist in containing part of the 53's budget explosion. USMC officials estimate that state-earned royalties could end up paying for up to one twentieth of one aircraft.
Sav
One has to admire the 'diplomaspeak' touted in Lonewolf's post between the USMC and SAC.
"Your honour, although Slappsbottom Borough Council displayed the 30 mph speed limit in the appropriate manner, my client, a respected driver, interpreted the restriction differently and which interpretation, we respectfully submit and given my client's longstanding association with automobile driving, ought to be considered."
Pridgen said the expected unit cost of a CH-53K when built in full-rate production is $55 million to $65 million.
This could of course be the reason why the USMC, in a reversal of private sector instigated public-private cooperation as nurtured by Google with NASA, are negotiating (with SAC's approval) royalties with Microsoft for the use of CGI involving the CH-53 in X-Box games.
It is hoped that sales of games incorporating CH-53 imagery will assist in containing part of the 53's budget explosion. USMC officials estimate that state-earned royalties could end up paying for up to one twentieth of one aircraft.
Sav
An old friend from 2011:
This is now:
Is it really worth two V-22's?
Pridgen said the expected unit cost of a CH-53K when built in full-rate production is $55 million to $65 million.
Earlier this month, Rep. Niki Tsongas, D-Mass., asserted that the price for each CH-53K had ballooned from $87.1 million to $122 million per helicopter,
That's not a helicopter.
It's a C-130 with rotors.... what a beast, but a hell of a price tag.
Do Stallion crews currently use 02 masks?
Makes sense I`spose when you're operating at 12,000 feet plus.
It's a C-130 with rotors.... what a beast, but a hell of a price tag.
Do Stallion crews currently use 02 masks?
Makes sense I`spose when you're operating at 12,000 feet plus.
$122 million a copy may be the all in cost of development and procurement of 200 53K's, but the V-22 cost per aircraft is only half of that if you ignore the decades of development. Those are not comparable values. Hell, I can't even find a proper all-in cost of the V-22 that puts the long development cost into an inflation adjusted current year dollar value.
They're different aircraft for different missions, but the 53K should be able to carry 2 HMMV's at a time vs the V-22’s one, and with a sling load, I suspect the speed and range advantages of the tilt rotor aren't as apparent. Is the 53K worth two V-22’s? Like comparing any platforms, depends on the mission.
Congrats to the team for passing Milestone C.
They're different aircraft for different missions, but the 53K should be able to carry 2 HMMV's at a time vs the V-22’s one, and with a sling load, I suspect the speed and range advantages of the tilt rotor aren't as apparent. Is the 53K worth two V-22’s? Like comparing any platforms, depends on the mission.
Congrats to the team for passing Milestone C.
Payback
Sultan just wants to have a little payback for the decades of S brand fan boys piling unwarranted jabs at the V-22.
Give him his due. Six years ago Sikorsky was literally bragging that they could beat the V-22 on price and meet a unrealistic accelerated schedule. They missed both by a light year.
The K is an amazing aircraft and the team deserves kudos for their accomplishment. But it is no where near the accomplishment achieved by the people that fought and struggled to bring the V-22 into production.
Give him his due. Six years ago Sikorsky was literally bragging that they could beat the V-22 on price and meet a unrealistic accelerated schedule. They missed both by a light year.
The K is an amazing aircraft and the team deserves kudos for their accomplishment. But it is no where near the accomplishment achieved by the people that fought and struggled to bring the V-22 into production.
So how many they gonna make? A few hundred?
And then
OK, that's about 104 million per, +/- 17 million.
I would have thought that price variability would be something less than 15%, given how many years of Acquisition Reform have been in progress. Thanks, VP Al Gore, for your brilliant transformation of government back in the 90's. Wait ... guess not.
Not to mention that the political class is once again grandstanding.
I'd like a more credible source. Anybody got one?
Pridgen said the expected unit cost of a CH-53K when built in full-rate production is $55 million to $65 million.
Earlier this month, Rep. Niki Tsongas, D-Mass., asserted that the price for each CH-53K had ballooned from $87.1 million to $122 million per helicopter
I would have thought that price variability would be something less than 15%, given how many years of Acquisition Reform have been in progress. Thanks, VP Al Gore, for your brilliant transformation of government back in the 90's. Wait ... guess not.
From 2007 to 2013 she represented Massachusetts's 5th congressional district, the district her husband Paul Tsongas served prior to being elected to the United States Senate
I'd like a more credible source. Anybody got one?
The cost explosion on the 53K is not a surprise as the same company over the same time jacked up the unit cost of the CH-48 (92) from $100m to $300m a piece. Also deliveries were to be completed around 2011, but now full capability not expected before 2025.
Got it you don't have a more credible source but you do have an opinion.
Here's an idea: maybe the CH-53K Program Manager is trying to be like the cool kids over at F-35. If it costs more, it must be a better aircraft.
Here's an idea: maybe the CH-53K Program Manager is trying to be like the cool kids over at F-35. If it costs more, it must be a better aircraft.
Looks like CH-53K is moving forward, making progress. Heading to Pax River for a more testing, it appears.
https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/201.../?spt=slh&or=2
Lockheed-Martin press release is here
https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/201.../?spt=slh&or=2
"This first movement of CH-53K flight testing to our customer's facility denotes that the aircraft have achieved sufficient maturity to begin transitioning the focus of the test program from envelope expansion to system qualification testing," Dr. Michael Torok, vice president of CH-53K programs at Sikorsky, said in a press release.
In April, the CH-53K King Stallion Program successfully passed its Defense Acquisition Board (DAB) and achieved a Milestone C decision that approves funding for low rate initial production.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 6th Jul 2017 at 19:07.
