Olympic restrictions 2012
Joined: Jan 2003
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Near the bottom
Mode S will rule out a lot of older aircraft, but regardless of that, it's not the machine that the authorities are worried about, it's the unauthorised use of those machines. A special 'Olympics squawk' will last 5 minutes, before it's leaked and the whole system is compromised.
There's plenty of time, so I'd recommend a proposal from one of the 'invited few', based on detailed applications NOW from the specific pilots who will be affected. This has to be in the form of unique codes allocated and sent to the home addres of each security-vetted individual, who will be asked to quote randomly selected characters from their own unique code on lifting. There could even be a special sequence of characters that would indicate a '7500' (unlawful interference) situation.
As I've said before, if someone wants to fly into Buckingham Palace, Houses of Parliament, etc. there ain't nobody gonna stop 'em, but the current proposal paralyses the industry and prevents spontaneous private activity in the Restricted Area quite unnecessarily.
There's plenty of time, so I'd recommend a proposal from one of the 'invited few', based on detailed applications NOW from the specific pilots who will be affected. This has to be in the form of unique codes allocated and sent to the home addres of each security-vetted individual, who will be asked to quote randomly selected characters from their own unique code on lifting. There could even be a special sequence of characters that would indicate a '7500' (unlawful interference) situation.
As I've said before, if someone wants to fly into Buckingham Palace, Houses of Parliament, etc. there ain't nobody gonna stop 'em, but the current proposal paralyses the industry and prevents spontaneous private activity in the Restricted Area quite unnecessarily.
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: The South
I took part in the 50th Anniversary of the D-Day Landings where nearly every Head of State and political leader of the countries involved attended.
How did the French deal with the security of all these targets and the airspace? They set up restricted airspace, issued transponder codes and set up live Air Defence batteries! Interesting flying around and watching the launchers track you. If you were stupid enough to ignore the publicity about the proceduress, too lazy to comply or a terrorist who doesn't follow the rules you got shot down.
I will leave the topic open for discussion.
How did the French deal with the security of all these targets and the airspace? They set up restricted airspace, issued transponder codes and set up live Air Defence batteries! Interesting flying around and watching the launchers track you. If you were stupid enough to ignore the publicity about the proceduress, too lazy to comply or a terrorist who doesn't follow the rules you got shot down.
I will leave the topic open for discussion.
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: UK
I see from CAA IN 2011/36
IN-2011/36: Airspace Change Proposal Framework Briefing: London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games CAS(T) | Publications | CAA
that in addition to the main Olympics proposals, Manston AND Oxford Airports are bidding for ADDITIONAL restrictions. These would be in the form of CAS(T) to protect the additional IFR traffic that they think will be worked by their airports. As far as I was able to establish from the links, Manston have published a document setting out their proposals. As far as I could see, Oxford has not published their proposals (in the public domain).
The Manston proposal would provide an area of CAS around Manston and under the Olympic CAS. I guess that Oxford would be wanting something similar, but who knows.
Anyone planning a significant operation in the vicinity of these 2 might well wish to have a look at these documents. They seem to be CAS rather than prohibited zones.
IN-2011/36: Airspace Change Proposal Framework Briefing: London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games CAS(T) | Publications | CAA
that in addition to the main Olympics proposals, Manston AND Oxford Airports are bidding for ADDITIONAL restrictions. These would be in the form of CAS(T) to protect the additional IFR traffic that they think will be worked by their airports. As far as I was able to establish from the links, Manston have published a document setting out their proposals. As far as I could see, Oxford has not published their proposals (in the public domain).
The Manston proposal would provide an area of CAS around Manston and under the Olympic CAS. I guess that Oxford would be wanting something similar, but who knows.
Anyone planning a significant operation in the vicinity of these 2 might well wish to have a look at these documents. They seem to be CAS rather than prohibited zones.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: England & Scotland
It gets a little better. Covered in Private Flying
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...trictions.html
And the CAA announcement is here Development of London 2012 Airspace Restrictions Announced | CAA Newsroom | CAA
And the actual restrictions are here Primary airspace restrictions for south-east England
Good to see it shortened in duration, and some sensible trimming of the zone edges. The single most stupid element (for me) is the rewquirement to file flight plans using a system which is overly complex and almost incomprehensible to most GA pilots. Add a simpler web-based filing option and almost all of the problems then go away (aside from Gliders, who still have to stick to flight plans, I think)
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...trictions.html
And the CAA announcement is here Development of London 2012 Airspace Restrictions Announced | CAA Newsroom | CAA
And the actual restrictions are here Primary airspace restrictions for south-east England
Good to see it shortened in duration, and some sensible trimming of the zone edges. The single most stupid element (for me) is the rewquirement to file flight plans using a system which is overly complex and almost incomprehensible to most GA pilots. Add a simpler web-based filing option and almost all of the problems then go away (aside from Gliders, who still have to stick to flight plans, I think)
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
The main difficulty is the requirement for everyone on board plus bags to be security screened prior to departure. This will do nothing to prevent any real threat as far as rotary wing is concerned.
How I am supposed to pick up my passenger from "somewhere not at a security facility" and get him on his way to his normal destination inside the prohibited area is not known.
How I am supposed to pick up my passenger from "somewhere not at a security facility" and get him on his way to his normal destination inside the prohibited area is not known.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: England & Scotland
I think it is known - you can't. My understanding is there is no intention to be flexible. These rules are intended to identify potential threat targets for the air defence Navy asset to be parked at the mouth of the Thames.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: England & Scotland
So, the 2 months is now 1 month; also, small airfields on the edge like Headcorn have a route out.
Main restricted space is 14 July to 15 August. Additional (lesser) restrictions 16 August to 12 September. You still need to file flight plans using AFPEx and receive confirmation before flying in the zone unless you stay in the aerodrome pattern.
www.airspacesafety.com/olympics
Main restricted space is 14 July to 15 August. Additional (lesser) restrictions 16 August to 12 September. You still need to file flight plans using AFPEx and receive confirmation before flying in the zone unless you stay in the aerodrome pattern.
www.airspacesafety.com/olympics
Joined: Jan 2003
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Near the bottom
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Close to the hangar, UK.
New Olympic airspace Podcast launched
The interviewer will undoubtedly get a journalism prize for asking such tricky questions!!! Perhaps he would have been better off asking a selection of the following questions.
- Given the airspace restrictions around the Paralympic Games are less can we conclude that the safety of the spectators and competitors is less important?
- Have you used the AFPEx system? Did you know it's so sh!t that you can't even enter a route using VRPs and Aerodrome codes?
- Given that students on a navex need to be allowed to make mistakes and will deviate from their flight plan, do you plan to intercept them or just shoot them down?
- Given the Government's commitment to deliver a safe and secure games, does the CAA's G-INFO database not provide information that could compromise this?
- It is widely accepted that these restrictions will cause aviation businesses operating in and around the airspace a level of financial hardship, what compensation will they receive and how will it be calculated?
- The distance from the edge of Stapleford's ATZ to the stadium is around 7Nm. Could you really respond within the 4mins it would take for a GA aircraft to get from the ATZ to the stadium? And what would you do?
- Would a better use of resources be not to restrict the airspace, but to control the aircrew and the passengers / students etc that they are operating with during the games?
- Can you guarantee that similar restrictions will not become the norm once the Government have "decided" how successful they were?
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,022
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From: In the air with luck
Don't worry they will learn lessons! & get it sorted for the next one.
ShyT you could become collateral damage, only another statistic b
s
Hard enough to earn a crust as it is.
FB
Your lack of a sense of humour is showing (possibly with reason same as STs)
Remember they are the government & here to help.
ShyT you could become collateral damage, only another statistic b
sHard enough to earn a crust as it is.
FB
Your lack of a sense of humour is showing (possibly with reason same as STs)
Remember they are the government & here to help.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
ShyT you could become collateral damage, only another statistic bs
Hard enough to earn a crust as it is.
Hard enough to earn a crust as it is.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 52
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From: UK
Following on from Firebirds last point,
At 4:50 in 'if we(GA) can't police ourselves and comply with what the government has laid down then that will have some implications for sometime to come...'
Is it just me or does that sound sinister?? I think it needs expanding on.
At 4:50 in 'if we(GA) can't police ourselves and comply with what the government has laid down then that will have some implications for sometime to come...'
Is it just me or does that sound sinister?? I think it needs expanding on.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 439
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From: UK
That podcast - please someone shoot IT down. Ferchrissake, do you have to produce such a puerile, dumb, fake-fun, not even clever ironic pile of dung digits?
How the hell could the CAA sanction and pay for this tosh? Most pilots that I know (but not all) have a mental age of more than 6.
This is aimed at GA - and the definition of that appears to be a patronising tone delivered with a pat on the head and a warning that a caning might be possible.
Most of us are trying to make a living in the air that's owned by the people. We have been told that, unlike ground-based businesses that get compensation for Olympic disturbance, we will get jack!!!!. Nothing.
And all because of what? This vapourware restriction wouldn't stop a hooded looter, let alone someone organised.
How the hell could the CAA sanction and pay for this tosh? Most pilots that I know (but not all) have a mental age of more than 6.
This is aimed at GA - and the definition of that appears to be a patronising tone delivered with a pat on the head and a warning that a caning might be possible.
Most of us are trying to make a living in the air that's owned by the people. We have been told that, unlike ground-based businesses that get compensation for Olympic disturbance, we will get jack!!!!. Nothing.
And all because of what? This vapourware restriction wouldn't stop a hooded looter, let alone someone organised.
Guest
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: UK
CAA April fool?!
‘File a Flight Plan Day’ to get GA pilots warmed-up for Olympics
A unique, one-day event in November, will aim to get as many GA pilots as possible thinking about flight planning, ahead of next year’s London 2012 Olympics. Any pilots wishing to fly though the Restricted Zone, being put in place over the capital and surrounding areas during the Games, will need to file an accepted flight plan with air traffic controllers before they can take to the skies.
File a Flight Plan Day, being organised by the Airspace & Safety Initiative (ASI), will take place between 10:00 and 15:00 on Saturday 12 November 2011. GA pilots are encouraged to file a test flight plan to familiarise themselves with the process and learn what they need to do next year to continue flying during the Olympics with the minimum of disruption.
Pilots who already have an AFPEx account should log on through a specially created website www.olympicflightplantrial.co.uk, alternatively, pilots can use AFTN. Pilots who are not yet registered on AFPEx are advised to sign up as soon as possible.
The plan should be similar to one that a pilot intends to fly during the Olympics, but as this is only a test, they do not actually have to fly the route on File a Flight Plan Day!
To avoid disruption to the ‘live’ flight planning system, and therefore the safety of real operations, participants are required to carefully follow several steps to clearly indicate their plan is actually a test. These can be found in the comprehensive online guidance
Dawn Lindsey, Head of Olympics Airspace Planning at the UK Civil Aviation Authority, said:”It is very important that GA pilots who want to fly in the Restricted Zone during London 2012 are fully aware of how to file a flight plan. Without a flight plan and subsequent acceptance code they can’t fly so, File a Flight Plan Day provides a great opportunity to learn the ropes without any pressure.”
File a Flight Plan Day, being organised by the Airspace & Safety Initiative (ASI), will take place between 10:00 and 15:00 on Saturday 12 November 2011. GA pilots are encouraged to file a test flight plan to familiarise themselves with the process and learn what they need to do next year to continue flying during the Olympics with the minimum of disruption.
Pilots who already have an AFPEx account should log on through a specially created website www.olympicflightplantrial.co.uk, alternatively, pilots can use AFTN. Pilots who are not yet registered on AFPEx are advised to sign up as soon as possible.
The plan should be similar to one that a pilot intends to fly during the Olympics, but as this is only a test, they do not actually have to fly the route on File a Flight Plan Day!
To avoid disruption to the ‘live’ flight planning system, and therefore the safety of real operations, participants are required to carefully follow several steps to clearly indicate their plan is actually a test. These can be found in the comprehensive online guidance
Dawn Lindsey, Head of Olympics Airspace Planning at the UK Civil Aviation Authority, said:”It is very important that GA pilots who want to fly in the Restricted Zone during London 2012 are fully aware of how to file a flight plan. Without a flight plan and subsequent acceptance code they can’t fly so, File a Flight Plan Day provides a great opportunity to learn the ropes without any pressure.”
Guest
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: UK
I believe you have to:
- attend a CAA seminar on 'Flight Plan Filing in the UK FIR', 2 seminars a year are available, both at Gatwick. There is no on-line training tools, you MUST attend the seminar (cost £149 per person)
- Register as an Approved Flight Plan filer using CAA Form FP474b, pay the fee of £345 (£678 for a CPL holder), this fee is non-refundable
- If successful the named person/aircraft on the application will be granted permission to file flight plans for a four week period
- If you wish to file a flight plan for a different aircraft than originally designated on the initial application, or extend the four week period then you will have to submit form FP474c, and pay the (non refundable) fee of £245 (£678 for a CPL holder)
- After extensive consultation with the GA community the CAA believe this procedure was deemed a vast improvement to the previous system and it will enable a safer, more efficient system for filing flight plans in the Uk FIR
Don't forget "The CAA is commited to General Aviation"
(I am joking of course. But how many of you were fooled initially?)
- attend a CAA seminar on 'Flight Plan Filing in the UK FIR', 2 seminars a year are available, both at Gatwick. There is no on-line training tools, you MUST attend the seminar (cost £149 per person)
- Register as an Approved Flight Plan filer using CAA Form FP474b, pay the fee of £345 (£678 for a CPL holder), this fee is non-refundable
- If successful the named person/aircraft on the application will be granted permission to file flight plans for a four week period
- If you wish to file a flight plan for a different aircraft than originally designated on the initial application, or extend the four week period then you will have to submit form FP474c, and pay the (non refundable) fee of £245 (£678 for a CPL holder)
- After extensive consultation with the GA community the CAA believe this procedure was deemed a vast improvement to the previous system and it will enable a safer, more efficient system for filing flight plans in the Uk FIR
Don't forget "The CAA is commited to General Aviation"
(I am joking of course. But how many of you were fooled initially?)
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,022
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From: In the air with luck
Noticed an interesting snippet from US, regarding 6 persons arrested with model aircraft, supposedly loaded with explosives.
Are we going to remove these dangerous items from the sky as well, if so they better start know! this will keep them employed full time for years, collect 1 build 3, collect 2 build?, if people are so inclined there is always a way.
Are we going to remove these dangerous items from the sky as well, if so they better start know! this will keep them employed full time for years, collect 1 build 3, collect 2 build?, if people are so inclined there is always a way.