The difficulty in finding a school to learn to fly...
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The difficulty in finding a school to learn to fly...
Well here goes, my first post. I started looking at PPRuNe about two months ago, it was a great source of inspiration and also helped guide me in my choice of school. Several friends fly both helicopters and fixed wing. Helicopters are what fascinated me ( I guess I was also inspired by my father who was a commercial helicopter pilot after leaving the army as a helicopter pilot). I decided to try to find a school which suited me, having read of the vast range of approaches to teaching a common subject I needed a school which I would feel comfortable with, one where I knew that I would be trained to a safe standard with a friendly approach and application of both commercial and common sense.
I visited a very well known school situated in Warwickshire, my father knew the man who had sold the school in recent years and suggested that if his ethos was still followed it would be a great school to learn at.
I visited there with a friend who is a current helicopter pilot, I was very disappointed, the staff appeared subdued, it was as if the whole place had a cloud hanging over it. I enquired about training rates and various options were explained to me including the block booking options. Being an accountant, discounts always appeal, however caution also set in about depositing a large amount with an organisation for future services (in case of failure of the company due to financial reasons). I decided to apply the same due diligence to the company (before parting with my money) as I apply in my business life. I met a man there who was the MD, he spent time telling me how wonderful the company was, how he "owned" it and how he was going to make it the "best" company in Europe. I must admit he did not impress me, in fact he made me feel very uncomfortable (call it female intuition) something did not seem quite right.
Friends visited the launch of the Robinson 66 and told me of the "awful" risks of the person who displayed the helicopter and explained the reasons they were so shocked. I was not surprised when the person was named. I saw the comments on this and other websites, I watched the videos and had it explained to me about the risks involved. Thank God, I listened to my instinct and had my first three hours of lesson during the last few days with another company based in Gloucestershire. I must admit I am so impressed by their approach to everything. They may be a few percent more expensive, but I feel totally happy with everything, especially their approach to me - the customer.
I know that this is a rumour site so feel its not out of order to say that my father told me today that he heard last night that "serious" changes are underway to remove the problems at the Warwickshire company (ie the person in charge...) and to restore the company to its previous positive state. Sadly its too little to late for me, an extra twenty mile drive is a small price to pay to learn in an environment where the staff feel happy and the "owner" is not busy telling you how good he is or trying to impress everyone with his skills.
I visited a very well known school situated in Warwickshire, my father knew the man who had sold the school in recent years and suggested that if his ethos was still followed it would be a great school to learn at.
I visited there with a friend who is a current helicopter pilot, I was very disappointed, the staff appeared subdued, it was as if the whole place had a cloud hanging over it. I enquired about training rates and various options were explained to me including the block booking options. Being an accountant, discounts always appeal, however caution also set in about depositing a large amount with an organisation for future services (in case of failure of the company due to financial reasons). I decided to apply the same due diligence to the company (before parting with my money) as I apply in my business life. I met a man there who was the MD, he spent time telling me how wonderful the company was, how he "owned" it and how he was going to make it the "best" company in Europe. I must admit he did not impress me, in fact he made me feel very uncomfortable (call it female intuition) something did not seem quite right.
Friends visited the launch of the Robinson 66 and told me of the "awful" risks of the person who displayed the helicopter and explained the reasons they were so shocked. I was not surprised when the person was named. I saw the comments on this and other websites, I watched the videos and had it explained to me about the risks involved. Thank God, I listened to my instinct and had my first three hours of lesson during the last few days with another company based in Gloucestershire. I must admit I am so impressed by their approach to everything. They may be a few percent more expensive, but I feel totally happy with everything, especially their approach to me - the customer.
I know that this is a rumour site so feel its not out of order to say that my father told me today that he heard last night that "serious" changes are underway to remove the problems at the Warwickshire company (ie the person in charge...) and to restore the company to its previous positive state. Sadly its too little to late for me, an extra twenty mile drive is a small price to pay to learn in an environment where the staff feel happy and the "owner" is not busy telling you how good he is or trying to impress everyone with his skills.
Hovering AND talking
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Maybe ... maybe not. I went to visit said same school when I was looking to do my PPL in 2003. This female intuition thing is a real bugger innit .. 'cos the OP's impression was the same impression as I got then.
Two other schools I might consider if I lived in the Midlands would be Sloane or Tiger but both, I hear, are not without their financial difficulties in this current economic climate so NO MONEY UPFRONT even if you do pay by creit card.
Much depends on how often you can fly whether you can stay over somewhere and how far you are prepared to drive but you could also consider Aeromega at Cambridge or Central Helicopter in Nottingham.
Cheers
Whirls
Two other schools I might consider if I lived in the Midlands would be Sloane or Tiger but both, I hear, are not without their financial difficulties in this current economic climate so NO MONEY UPFRONT even if you do pay by creit card.
Much depends on how often you can fly whether you can stay over somewhere and how far you are prepared to drive but you could also consider Aeromega at Cambridge or Central Helicopter in Nottingham.
Cheers
Whirls
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More Heli Air Bashing !!!
I see a new agenda forming too!! I learnt to fly with this school back in 1993 and found them superb, great facilitys and some very experinced instructors.
Back then there was a woman Instructor and I beleive they have 2 now!
Whirls the management has changed since you paid them a visit, and I find it hard to believe that this so called attitude existed then.
Back then there was a woman Instructor and I beleive they have 2 now!
Whirls the management has changed since you paid them a visit, and I find it hard to believe that this so called attitude existed then.
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Heli-Air have their moments, and they do seem to be having a lot of trouble just recently; certainly, if I was a new student right now, I wouldn't train there.
On the other hand, I did my CPL with them about 18 months ago, specifically because I wanted to train under JP. I made certain that I specified exactly what I wanted and expected up front, and that all costs etc. were fully explained and agreed before any flying. I had no problems, and learned a huge amount.
The message I took away from this is that the instructor is far more important than the school. Assuming you lay the necessary groundwork and ensure that your interests are protected, I would accept a less-than-perfect school if it came with an instructor I wanted to fly with.
On the other hand, I did my CPL with them about 18 months ago, specifically because I wanted to train under JP. I made certain that I specified exactly what I wanted and expected up front, and that all costs etc. were fully explained and agreed before any flying. I had no problems, and learned a huge amount.
The message I took away from this is that the instructor is far more important than the school. Assuming you lay the necessary groundwork and ensure that your interests are protected, I would accept a less-than-perfect school if it came with an instructor I wanted to fly with.
Hovering AND talking
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the management has changed since you paid them a visit, and I find it hard to believe that this so called attitude existed then.
How diplomatic am I eh?
Cheers
Whirls
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Agenda - NO....
Simply my thoughts and observations, hopefully in the spirit of the forum and what I have observed over the last few months. Its interesting to see the positive comments about the Warwickshire company a few years ago. That is exactly what my dad said.
Without doubt other people have had a more positive experience than me.
Simply my thoughts and observations, hopefully in the spirit of the forum and what I have observed over the last few months. Its interesting to see the positive comments about the Warwickshire company a few years ago. That is exactly what my dad said.
Without doubt other people have had a more positive experience than me.
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I'm afraid there is no way someone would publish such a detailed, long and well thought out post without having a serious agenda or axe to grind, on behalf of themselves or someone else. Especially if they are as new to the scene as claimed. 
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Umm. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I have learnt in life you use everones opinion to form a balanced decision. I read many reports about various companies before I made my choice of who to learn with. The fact that I am a student pilot makes no difference to my abilty to make a balanced decision about where I spend my money. I felt my original post was balanced, I explained my thoughts and the reasons behind them and my final choice. Learning to fly is a major investment for me, not just in terms of money but also in time. Other people on here have helped guide my choice by their posts. I tried to be both objective and fair, rather than (if I had an agenda as has been suggested) just posting saying "xxxx" is rubbish dont touch them with a bargepole....
During my day to day job I have to read between the lines to find out the true situation and have learnt to listen to everything.
During my day to day job I have to read between the lines to find out the true situation and have learnt to listen to everything.
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The poor customer service at flight schools appears to be an oddly UK-specific thing. I've trained in Norway and South Africa as well, and the level of basic customer care was far higher. Perhaps I've just been lucky/unlucky!
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I walked into a company at west palm beach with no warning and asked them to hire a R22 with instructor to pole around the local area, and even though they were fully booked, they moved things around and made it happen, 30 mins later we were flying.
try that in the UK and they will be sucking through their teeth before the excuses start. maybe I was just lucky too, dont think so though.
nobody really new would be quite so eloquent, and as usual it was there first post under a new name.
try that in the UK and they will be sucking through their teeth before the excuses start. maybe I was just lucky too, dont think so though.
I'm afraid there is no way someone would publish such a detailed, long and well thought out post without having a serious agenda or axe to grind, on behalf of themselves or someone else. Especially if they are as new to the scene as claimed
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For someone who claims to be an accountant I'm surprised that she seems unaware of the protection afforded by the Consumer Credit Act if she chose to make an upfront payment by credit card in return for a discount.
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The Consumer Credit Act, whilst it deals with money, does not come under the auspices of "accountancy". I don't know much about it either; only the general knowledge which you pick up in day to day life which is why I would advise never to rely on it to obtain a refund in case of a business becoming insolvent.
Accountants don't tend to know much about banking regulations (that's for bankers) nor pensions (that's for pension advisers!) neither!
Additionally, why can't someone be eloquent or well-written in their first or subsequent post, without having some ulterior motive?
All this evidence to demonstrate that the OP might be "someone else in disguise" - whoopy do.
"Agendas", "axes" etc or not, if someone is unhappy with a service or with a company, why shouldn't they register on a forum to express that dissatisfaction and to seek out alternative schools.
Cheers
Whirls
Accountants don't tend to know much about banking regulations (that's for bankers) nor pensions (that's for pension advisers!) neither!
Additionally, why can't someone be eloquent or well-written in their first or subsequent post, without having some ulterior motive?
All this evidence to demonstrate that the OP might be "someone else in disguise" - whoopy do.
"Agendas", "axes" etc or not, if someone is unhappy with a service or with a company, why shouldn't they register on a forum to express that dissatisfaction and to seek out alternative schools.
Cheers
Whirls
Hughes 500 always rang me back, was very flexible regarding times, days, & no shows due to me being self employed & on call, + he pushed the exams so as to have them done along with the flying.
I will never be a natural pilot + being old made for some frustration on my part, but he never got rattled when I did stupid things, just explained & said do it again.
He was always on time & ready to go when I arrived, if there were airworthiness issues(this only happened once) he phoned so as to cause the least inconvenience.
Hughes you will have to stop with the flight suit & helmet way to flamboyant
I will never be a natural pilot + being old made for some frustration on my part, but he never got rattled when I did stupid things, just explained & said do it again.
He was always on time & ready to go when I arrived, if there were airworthiness issues(this only happened once) he phoned so as to cause the least inconvenience.
Hughes you will have to stop with the flight suit & helmet way to flamboyant
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Not that outrageous, I've dealt with, and worked for, many flights schools. Like I said some are good, some are bad. But there is a general air of 'amateurish' about uk schools.
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Shame on you GirlyPilot 1962!
Lets's see now... your very first post is a detailed and lengthy slagging-off... (and that in itself is an almost unique event in the history of Pprune!)you carefully avoid naming the company but are kind enough to provide countless clues (Warwickshire, change of management, R66 display etc).
With respect, as an alleged accountant, I would expect you to be able to spell "training"..mis-spelt twice..and "environment"..
Finally, unlike virtually every virgin-poster, you do not seek advice or guidance.
So... have you a beef against that company...... or have you merely been reading about them in Pprune?
I think we should be told
Cheers. 2G
(15 year Pprune squatter with Hons Degree in Detection of Fishy Stories)
With respect, as an alleged accountant, I would expect you to be able to spell "training"..mis-spelt twice..and "environment"..
Finally, unlike virtually every virgin-poster, you do not seek advice or guidance.
So... have you a beef against that company...... or have you merely been reading about them in Pprune?
I think we should be told
Cheers. 2G
(15 year Pprune squatter with Hons Degree in Detection of Fishy Stories)
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2nd Generation pilot.
Wow what an attack. Sorry about the spelling, yes lazy of me but I do miss the F7 key when on this forum. I did take a look at your profile, very impressive. You claim to have been a forum squatter for 15 years, yet in your first ever post (November 2010) you said 8 years. Thank God my maths is better than yours (even if my spelling on this forum is not).
I have just finished chatting to a friend who is a Captain at BA, he was really impressed by you, you say you are 34 years old and a TRE/TRI on B738's. He had to explain to me what a TRE/TRI was but now I know I think I get his drift.
I have read numerous posts on this forum and feel my first post was a reflection of my own experience, I have read lots of other peoples requests for help in starting out and felt it a waste to repeat a question asked many times before (and answered). The forum has been a good source of help and inspiration to me.
Perhaps it would be more helpful if you PM me and let me have the benefit of your obvious extensive experience, you have not shared it with anyone else in your five posts since joining pprune late in 2010.
And yes - I am an accountant - over to you?
Wow what an attack. Sorry about the spelling, yes lazy of me but I do miss the F7 key when on this forum. I did take a look at your profile, very impressive. You claim to have been a forum squatter for 15 years, yet in your first ever post (November 2010) you said 8 years. Thank God my maths is better than yours (even if my spelling on this forum is not).
I have just finished chatting to a friend who is a Captain at BA, he was really impressed by you, you say you are 34 years old and a TRE/TRI on B738's. He had to explain to me what a TRE/TRI was but now I know I think I get his drift.
I have read numerous posts on this forum and feel my first post was a reflection of my own experience, I have read lots of other peoples requests for help in starting out and felt it a waste to repeat a question asked many times before (and answered). The forum has been a good source of help and inspiration to me.
Perhaps it would be more helpful if you PM me and let me have the benefit of your obvious extensive experience, you have not shared it with anyone else in your five posts since joining pprune late in 2010.
And yes - I am an accountant - over to you?
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Geez, you lot are incredible.
Why should accountants have to be able to spell? When I did my qualification, 40% of it was multi-guess and the most of the remainder was sums! That's a feeble and very tenuous attempt to try and discover whether the OP is genuine or not
I think the clue is in the thread title - raising a discussion point on the varying standards of flying school and where one should learn to fly.
What if the OP is really a Chief Pilot for one of HeliAir's competitors in disguise? Surely then, their own school would be puffed up a bit more? Does it make or break the gist of the thread which is that a once highly-reputable flying school and helicopter operator is starting to get themselves a name for being a bit ignominious? And maybe those that have posted who have a connexion with said Warks. based school, should take the thread back to management and address the concerns raised therein.
As for Virgin poster ... one has been able to read pprune as a guest for quite a while now so the OP may well be a long time lurker. Secondly, Pprune is not the only forum on the internet and therefore, in this day and age, it is reasonably likely that anyone should be forum savvy enough to know how to conduct oneself.
Cheers
Whirls
Why should accountants have to be able to spell? When I did my qualification, 40% of it was multi-guess and the most of the remainder was sums! That's a feeble and very tenuous attempt to try and discover whether the OP is genuine or not
I think the clue is in the thread title - raising a discussion point on the varying standards of flying school and where one should learn to fly.
What if the OP is really a Chief Pilot for one of HeliAir's competitors in disguise? Surely then, their own school would be puffed up a bit more? Does it make or break the gist of the thread which is that a once highly-reputable flying school and helicopter operator is starting to get themselves a name for being a bit ignominious? And maybe those that have posted who have a connexion with said Warks. based school, should take the thread back to management and address the concerns raised therein.
As for Virgin poster ... one has been able to read pprune as a guest for quite a while now so the OP may well be a long time lurker. Secondly, Pprune is not the only forum on the internet and therefore, in this day and age, it is reasonably likely that anyone should be forum savvy enough to know how to conduct oneself.
Cheers
Whirls