MD vs Bell: which to choose?

[NBU]

Ok, I have read tons of info on the "New MD Helicopters" and now have an upfront question to all those who operate or have operated both Bell and MD. I have extensive experience in both these OEMs however it is from the Military side, which as many of you know the military is somewhat sheltered from a lot of the problems that the civilian operators face i.e. delivery, warranty work, parts supply, customer service...etc.

Well now I am becoming one of the civilian operators and our company is on the cusp of purchasing a 600N/407 class machine. I will not tell which one I am leaning towards as to not muddy the waters but I would like to hear from the masses:

If you were starting your own utility company, right now with your own money, which machine/OEM would you go with? MD or Bell, and why?

This question comes up as Bell placed first in the ProPilot survey and MD place a distant last...

Thank you in advance for everyones input!

[GeorgeMandes]

As someone that has operated a 530F and 407, done lots of factory training in both machines, and enjoyed both machines, I can say that whatever similarities there appear to be on paper between a 600 and 407, there is a world of difference between the two machines in practice, with the 407 being perhaps the best flying single engine helicopter ever, and the 600 on the other end of the spectrum.

[EN48]

Bell placed first in the ProPilot survey and MD place a distant last...

Did you read this? You might want to read it again and think carefully about the implications. I have no MD experience but do operate a 407 and can attest that Bell support and training have been superb. It would seem that the 600N has achieved near orphan status and could be a true orphan if MD doesnt make it. There are more than 1000 407's flying vs a handfull of 600N's. You can no doubt buy a used 600N at a relative "bargain" price, but it may not be a real bargain over the long term.

[Hans K.]

The MD 530 F is a hold out from the price jump. No irritating Fadec or $18K Litton gauges. More seat room than a 407 in front.

The vendors got screwed sooo hard by the older MD operation. They saw red when the idea of supplying MD again was offered.

With high certification costs all rotorcraft are only slight changes on older Designs. The 530 F could run 15 -20 lbs more torque according to the Factory pilots, but again certification limits its performance.

Most innovation is limited by certification cost and or liability. Unit sales to break even, don't justify it .

MDs have a limited mission role.

[Ascend Charlie]

For a passenger operation, steer away from the 600. The tail has a tendency to sway around, the pilot has trouble keeping it in balance, and the passengers have trouble keeping their breakfast.

[Vertical Freedom]

If want a TRUE utility machine then just go AS350B3+. There is NO other choices really for that role. As for SLB work (self loading baggage; PAX) its great, all forward facing seats, good view from all positions, no broom closet, no vomit seats, roomy & heaps of locker space for the SLB's stuff. As for maintenance, Eurocopter are waking up, they are rapidly changing their support & spares services, yes it may take a long time to catch up to Bell's outstanding support, but they are working on it. VF

[Bell_Flyer]

MD vs Bell: which to choose?

Neither. Too many bad reasons to list for the MD. The Bell is old, old, old design for the sitting layout. And it has a broom cupboard - lousy for tourism work. At a glance only, it is a beefed up LR4 with 4 blades. Bell can't design anything that looks like a JR or Huey. If they do, it won't be wildly successful unless the uniforms buy it.

A conservative approach is an AS350 with a Honeywell engine ie SuperD1/2. Put in a Gemini seat and it will hold 7POB. One cabin, big, roomy, power galore, very few calendar bits to worry about. No lethargic or rude responses from Turbomecca, etc. Go for the 350.

[Saint Jack]

Of course it's important to compare the price and flying qualities of any prospective helicopter, as many have done here. But it's also very important for the successful manufacturer to have a comprehensive product support system in place to ensure your helicopter availability is kept to the maximum. To his credit, 'NBU' clearly realises that the military environment, where technical support packages are written into the procurement contract, is quite unlike the commercial world. Do not underestimate the value of a responsive manufacturer, especially to a new start-up organization with perhaps only one or two machines. In this respect, Bell is still way ahead of the pack. Or, as 'Vertical Freedom' says, "...Eurocopter are waking up, they are rapidly changing their support & spares services, yes it may take a long time to catch up to Bell's outstanding support, but they are working on it…. " Forget about the AS350 Series unless you like plastic helicopters. Go for the Bell.

[paco]

Eurocopter are waking up, they are rapidly changing their support & spares services, yes it may take a long time to catch up to Bell's outstanding support, but they are working on it.

It's about time! I like flying Eurocopter products, but operating them can be a pain unless you have a spare engine and gearbox so you're not on the ground for months while they sort things out (been there, done that).

An old design is not necessarily a bad one, and aside from not being able to put an 8-foot pole in the cabin, the 407 is an excellent ship, as long as you ensure that the serial number is above 500

Phil

[helonorth]

My vote is for the 407, but I have no time in a notar. I disagree that earlier SN's should be avoided. The one I have been flying for the past year has in excess of 13,000 hours (1997 model) and never misses a beat. It flies 200 hours a month and the only problem I have had was a trans pressure gauge failure. Most of the other 407's I have flown were older. The MX makes all the difference. They ARE prone to gauge failures and it sounds like they are incredibly expensive. I would think they could be rebuilt, though. The two aft facing seats haven't seem to bother anyone I've flown in 2000 hours. I don't know why anyone cares about the broom closet. I like it that the cabin is separated. It has excellent TR authority and (at sea level anyway) has a ton of power. It may look like a 206L with 4 blades, but any similarity ends there. It looks cool, too. Many operators remove the frahm dampener to make MX easier and save 40 or so pounds.
The baggage is the same size as a 206. It would be nice if it was larger, but you can't have everything. Figure about 1400 pounds payload with an hour and a half of fuel. Get the pedal extenders if not equipped. You'll be glad you did! And I'm in Fl. too if you ever need a pilot!