North Sea Weather Considerations
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North Sea Weather Considerations
We were a bit bewildered today offshore in the Central North Sea when we were told that our crew change helicopters weren't coming because the sea state did not permit launch of the standby vessel's FRC. The conditions were suitable for Dacon Scoop deployment, which until today had been deemed adequate to permit flying.
So, what's the scoop
on this one chaps? We don't mind if you don't come because the weather is c
p, if you don't want to fly we don't either, but why the sudden (and unannounced) change in parameters?
So, what's the scoop
on this one chaps? We don't mind if you don't come because the weather is cp, if you don't want to fly we don't either, but why the sudden (and unannounced) change in parameters?
The pilots in CNS and BALPA have never believed that the Dacon Scoop represents valid rescue equipment. Some trials were done recently to justify it, but they were laughable since not carried out in representative conditions, then results extrapolated by someone with an outcome in mind.
The Dacon scoop is no doubt capable of fishing you out of the sea in rough conditions, only trouble is it will kill you doing so.
You can then argue that the probability of you ending up in the water is pretty low, the probability of that happening when its too rough for FRC is even lower, therefore the overall risk might be acceptable. Or you might think that its not acceptable when the alternative is to carry out the flight tomorrow.
HC
The Dacon scoop is no doubt capable of fishing you out of the sea in rough conditions, only trouble is it will kill you doing so.
You can then argue that the probability of you ending up in the water is pretty low, the probability of that happening when its too rough for FRC is even lower, therefore the overall risk might be acceptable. Or you might think that its not acceptable when the alternative is to carry out the flight tomorrow.
HC
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coatimundi
What type of helicopter normally does your flights?
It will be interesting to see if the Canadian decision (based on a TSB recommendation) to stop flights when the sea is out of limits for the helicopter's floatation systems is acted on elsewhere. The Canadian equivalent of Oil & Gas UK said they were doing this because 'safety is first'.
What type of helicopter normally does your flights?
It will be interesting to see if the Canadian decision (based on a TSB recommendation) to stop flights when the sea is out of limits for the helicopter's floatation systems is acted on elsewhere. The Canadian equivalent of Oil & Gas UK said they were doing this because 'safety is first'.
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To add to 'squib66s' comments.
The EC225 and S92 both have floation system which are certified up to 6m waves. The sea state in parts of the CNS today were as follows:
Goldeneye Sig Wave 7.0m Max Wave 10.2m
Forties A Sig Wave 6.9m Max Wave 11.0m
Unity Sig Wave 6.8m Max Wave 11.9m
Nelson Sig Wave 6.7m Max Wave 9.9m
ETAP Sig Wave 5.8m Max Wave 10.5m
I could go on, but I think you get the picture. The trials on launching FRCs (fast rescue craft) show that 5.5m seas are the limit. Anything over 5.5m means that the only method of recovery is the DACON Scoop. BALPA policy is that commercial flights should not depart if the primary method of recovery is the scoop. I say BALPA policy, but it is really common sense! UK Oil and Gas did release a piece of video showing the trials of the scoop done in 2009, in very gentle sea states. Having watched the video evidence, I don't want to get anywhere near a DACON Scoop!
So, if you were a passenger waiting for a flight today which didn't materialise, then it was probably because the crew were using their common sense! North Sea pilots want to go home at nights just like everyone else - they will not take un-neccessary risks. If it is safe to fly, they will do so. If not, they won't!
bondu
The EC225 and S92 both have floation system which are certified up to 6m waves. The sea state in parts of the CNS today were as follows:
Goldeneye Sig Wave 7.0m Max Wave 10.2m
Forties A Sig Wave 6.9m Max Wave 11.0m
Unity Sig Wave 6.8m Max Wave 11.9m
Nelson Sig Wave 6.7m Max Wave 9.9m
ETAP Sig Wave 5.8m Max Wave 10.5m
I could go on, but I think you get the picture. The trials on launching FRCs (fast rescue craft) show that 5.5m seas are the limit. Anything over 5.5m means that the only method of recovery is the DACON Scoop. BALPA policy is that commercial flights should not depart if the primary method of recovery is the scoop. I say BALPA policy, but it is really common sense! UK Oil and Gas did release a piece of video showing the trials of the scoop done in 2009, in very gentle sea states. Having watched the video evidence, I don't want to get anywhere near a DACON Scoop!
So, if you were a passenger waiting for a flight today which didn't materialise, then it was probably because the crew were using their common sense! North Sea pilots want to go home at nights just like everyone else - they will not take un-neccessary risks. If it is safe to fly, they will do so. If not, they won't!
bondu
Last edited by bondu; 14th Feb 2011 at 19:02.
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If you watch the video, you will notice that the 'live' person recovered to the deck is wearing an orange survival suit, but the 'live' person (which looks suspiciously like a dummy) being 'captured' by the scoop is wearing a yellow suit! 
The editing of this film was done by Oil and Gas UK before BALPA got a copy.
Also note the sea state during the trial - not quite the 7 to 11m we had today!
bondu
The editing of this film was done by Oil and Gas UK before BALPA got a copy.
Also note the sea state during the trial - not quite the 7 to 11m we had today!
bondu
coincidentally, I fly North sea now, and my step father worked on the boats for the Dacon scoop trialling. He reckons the dummies had to have strengthened titanium joints to keep them together during the high sea state trials, and he also asked me were i ever to suffer a ditching, never to have to be recovered by dacon scoop if I survived said ditching, because it would be a shame that i was killed during rescue! Anything over about 4m sea state and it's not pretty.
and yes, that video does show a dummy during the recovery.
and yes, that video does show a dummy during the recovery.
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Bears a resemblance to the Jason's Cradle - works on a similar principle but is more rigid. Looking at the video I think the problems and casualty injuries would e very similar.
Never had the pleasure of being in one, but having seen the trials on the local pilot boat we (a government operation) decided against it. The RNLI use them but when it was suggested that we consider it on my current command I politely suggested that it was put somewhere the sun doesn't shine.
HTC
Never had the pleasure of being in one, but having seen the trials on the local pilot boat we (a government operation) decided against it. The RNLI use them but when it was suggested that we consider it on my current command I politely suggested that it was put somewhere the sun doesn't shine.
HTC
I find it hard to belive that any one would chose to launch in a situation where the dakon scoop is used as a primary source of rescue.
When the chips are down .
A large Saftey vessel charging at me in large seas after I have just survived a helicopter crash is really the last thing I want.
Okay if it's all gone wrong pick me up... But should I plan for this?
Is that first beer worth the dacon scoop,, I think not...
When the chips are down .
A large Saftey vessel charging at me in large seas after I have just survived a helicopter crash is really the last thing I want.
Okay if it's all gone wrong pick me up... But should I plan for this?
Is that first beer worth the dacon scoop,, I think not...
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Good responses all, chaps, but perhaps I should have made my point a bit clearer - why have the parameters been changed all of a sudden without this info being communicated to the chaps offshore, and why were other helicopters being operated to installations quite near us yesterday in the weather conditions which bondu has outlined?
We don't mind being stuck offshore, but we do get miffed when another helicopter passes overhead and lands somewhere else which is clearly experiencing the exact same weather conditions - the fact that it's a different operator to the one who's due to fly to our rig may or may not be relevant....
The contract we have indicates that flying can take place as long as the Dacon scoop can be deployed, and no, I wouldn't want to be "saved" by this piece of st either.
We don't mind being stuck offshore, but we do get miffed when another helicopter passes overhead and lands somewhere else which is clearly experiencing the exact same weather conditions - the fact that it's a different operator to the one who's due to fly to our rig may or may not be relevant....
The contract we have indicates that flying can take place as long as the Dacon scoop can be deployed, and no, I wouldn't want to be "saved" by this piece of s
t either.
I may be being dull but isn't this what Jigsaw was supposed to provide? - SAR cover for rig transfers when the sea state precluded boat rescue? Or at least a mixture of boats and helos to do the job?
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That said, sometimes the standby boat Captains state at once when they are not happy with the weather. Hats off to them!!
handson - then I was being dull then