1st cross country flight, hit turbulance and ??
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1st cross country flight, hit turbulance and ??
Hello,
I had my qualifying cross country for PPLH on thursday, 3 leg flight 30 min flight per sector.
Was in a R22 B11, Reconditioned with 600 hrs TT. My total time 47 hrs.
I was flying at 3000 agl over a mountain range with highest peak 2100 foot. I felt turbulance just passing over the first section then suddenly i start decending 700 foot / min, this was my first time on my own in turbulance. I reduced curising speed from 85kt to 75 kt, was nervous as ship kept decending so reduced speed so i would have me more power to get zero VSI. It was Interesting to say the least, then something really strange happened, there was a valley just before exiting the mountain range, i was curising at 90 kt to get out of there and suddenly felt like the insipient stages of Vortex ring, the fuselage started to vibrate more than usual.
I thought it cant be Vortex as my speed is ok @75kt
What the !!!!
Wind factor was 11 kts on take off and increased to 20kt at that stage.Temp 8c.
I was "excited" at this stage and somewhat stressed because i could not understand what was happening, all the while i had been keeping an eye on the Caraburator air temp gauge, i flew with carb air on full as there was low temp outside.
It is only later i realised that the carb air knob when pulled fully out would depress itself, because the teeth on the shaft where worn.
I not sure if when i felt the vibration the carb knob might have depressed allowing the carb air temp to get colder...would this be suggestive of the vibration i felt??
I would appreciate your comments on this.
Enjoyed it thoroughly, i now believe helicopter pilots to be a bit cokoo..
I had my qualifying cross country for PPLH on thursday, 3 leg flight 30 min flight per sector.
Was in a R22 B11, Reconditioned with 600 hrs TT. My total time 47 hrs.
I was flying at 3000 agl over a mountain range with highest peak 2100 foot. I felt turbulance just passing over the first section then suddenly i start decending 700 foot / min, this was my first time on my own in turbulance. I reduced curising speed from 85kt to 75 kt, was nervous as ship kept decending so reduced speed so i would have me more power to get zero VSI. It was Interesting to say the least, then something really strange happened, there was a valley just before exiting the mountain range, i was curising at 90 kt to get out of there and suddenly felt like the insipient stages of Vortex ring, the fuselage started to vibrate more than usual.
I thought it cant be Vortex as my speed is ok @75kt
What the !!!!
Wind factor was 11 kts on take off and increased to 20kt at that stage.Temp 8c.
I was "excited" at this stage and somewhat stressed because i could not understand what was happening, all the while i had been keeping an eye on the Caraburator air temp gauge, i flew with carb air on full as there was low temp outside.
It is only later i realised that the carb air knob when pulled fully out would depress itself, because the teeth on the shaft where worn.
I not sure if when i felt the vibration the carb knob might have depressed allowing the carb air temp to get colder...would this be suggestive of the vibration i felt??
I would appreciate your comments on this.
Enjoyed it thoroughly, i now believe helicopter pilots to be a bit cokoo..
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I was pulling circa 24 inches Manifold pressure.
CAT was in the early yellow stages circa 4c..
These are not exact as was difficuly to tell with all the goings on.
CAT was in the early yellow stages circa 4c..
These are not exact as was difficuly to tell with all the goings on.
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Why would you be at 3000 ft AGL over 2100 ft mountains on your first solo cross country? Second your not supposed to fly in mountains without proper training and especially theoretical knowledge. It's clear from what you write, you don't have a clue. Bottom line you should go and find an other instructor.
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See what your saying, i can't be sure what the MAP was exactly, but was high at that stage as was trying to deal with turbulance.
Would this high MAP for a limited period lead to the vibration??
Also what about the CAT, any idea what the aircraft flies like if carb getting too cold before engine would shut down.? Spluttering of the enging & excessive vibration.?
I did not notice any irregularities with the T & P's.
A combination of CAT & MAP & Trubulance maby...
Hillbee:
Yea i hindsight should have not flown over the mountains, but instructor suggested.
When i talked with another inst he said he never sends students near mountains.
so yea should not have done.
Thanks for the reply.
Would this high MAP for a limited period lead to the vibration??
Also what about the CAT, any idea what the aircraft flies like if carb getting too cold before engine would shut down.? Spluttering of the enging & excessive vibration.?
I did not notice any irregularities with the T & P's.
A combination of CAT & MAP & Trubulance maby...
Hillbee:
Yea i hindsight should have not flown over the mountains, but instructor suggested.
When i talked with another inst he said he never sends students near mountains.
so yea should not have done.
Thanks for the reply.
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so, you probably were doing a little low-level sightseeing near the mountains/in the valley. hit some downdrafts over the top of the peaks or the side of the valley.
did you talk to your instructor about what happened?
btw, the carb heat did not depress itself because the teeth are worn as you said. the carb heat pulls itself off automatically in relation to how much power you are pulling. the higher you pull the collective the more it comes off.
of course i could be wrong, but i doubt any school would allow a student to fly an r22 with a faulty carb heat lever. but then again if they are letting you fly solo over mountains in a 20 knot wind who knows....
did you talk to your instructor about what happened?
btw, the carb heat did not depress itself because the teeth are worn as you said. the carb heat pulls itself off automatically in relation to how much power you are pulling. the higher you pull the collective the more it comes off.
of course i could be wrong, but i doubt any school would allow a student to fly an r22 with a faulty carb heat lever. but then again if they are letting you fly solo over mountains in a 20 knot wind who knows....
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Don't invalidate yourself and don't listen to everything being said here because you will end up scared ****less and only fly tight circuit around the airport a 600 hundred feet and never see the world and what's in it for fun
There are people here that knows the R22 and are trying to help you find what happened there, listen to them.
Also you where at a safe altitude and 2000 ft mountains well, are not really mountains.
Now if I were you I would talk to my instructor and go back to the same location in about the same conditions with him and ask him to show you or explain to you what happened there, that way you will understand what was the problem and know for sure not to get in it again or get in it again but this time knowing what is happening and how to deal with it.
Just get out there and have fun.
JD
There are people here that knows the R22 and are trying to help you find what happened there, listen to them.
Also you where at a safe altitude and 2000 ft mountains well, are not really mountains.
Now if I were you I would talk to my instructor and go back to the same location in about the same conditions with him and ask him to show you or explain to you what happened there, that way you will understand what was the problem and know for sure not to get in it again or get in it again but this time knowing what is happening and how to deal with it.
Just get out there and have fun.
JD
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something I might add is that your instructor is an extremely important part of your training. you can only be as well-prepared as your instructor is, and not all instructors are perfect.
have you done any flights with other instructors? If you havent, I would strongly recommend it. You would be surprised how much it will help your flying, even if your instructor is great. often times instructors and students get into a familiar groove and stick with it. getting in the cockpit with someone you are unfamiliar with can be enlightening, and often times you can pick up on a few extra tips and such. Plus it will help you when you do your check ride and are flying with someone new.
You dont need to be rude to your current instructor or anything like that, just tell him that you want to do a flight or two with another instructor to mix things up a bit.
have you done any flights with other instructors? If you havent, I would strongly recommend it. You would be surprised how much it will help your flying, even if your instructor is great. often times instructors and students get into a familiar groove and stick with it. getting in the cockpit with someone you are unfamiliar with can be enlightening, and often times you can pick up on a few extra tips and such. Plus it will help you when you do your check ride and are flying with someone new.
You dont need to be rude to your current instructor or anything like that, just tell him that you want to do a flight or two with another instructor to mix things up a bit.
You were flying at 3000 agl over a 2100' hill - does that mean you were at 5100' amsl?
Or were you at 3000 amsl and only 900 agl crossing the hill?
And helicopter engines don't behave like the aeroplane engines in movies where they go brrrrttt...brrrrtt...brrrrttt before stopping. They simply go *cough* and they're off. Propellors keep the engine churning over to give the plane engines a couple more tries, but the freewheel unit does not allow the rotor to turn the engine. So, engine stops, that's it. Only the starter motor can make it turn over again.
Or were you at 3000 amsl and only 900 agl crossing the hill?
And helicopter engines don't behave like the aeroplane engines in movies where they go brrrrttt...brrrrtt...brrrrttt before stopping. They simply go *cough* and they're off. Propellors keep the engine churning over to give the plane engines a couple more tries, but the freewheel unit does not allow the rotor to turn the engine. So, engine stops, that's it. Only the starter motor can make it turn over again.
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And don't forget, your MAP limit decreases as you go higher...
At sea level and 8 deg C, your max continuous limit was 22.3.
At 5000' PA (OAT now -2 deg C), the limit is even lower at 21.0!
I wonder how that engine is doing...
At sea level and 8 deg C, your max continuous limit was 22.3.
At 5000' PA (OAT now -2 deg C), the limit is even lower at 21.0!
I wonder how that engine is doing...
ijust - He was at 3000' and +8 not 5000' and -2.
I think, as ascend charlie spotted, bigduke was at 3000' amsl over the 2100' hill (and it isn't a mountain until it's over 3000').
Even small features can give you nasty turbulence if the conditions are right.
Sending someone mountain flying on a solo cross country is not clever but a route that crosses 2100' ground is reasonable enough. How are you supposed to learn about turbulence if you don't get out and experience it?
I think, as ascend charlie spotted, bigduke was at 3000' amsl over the 2100' hill (and it isn't a mountain until it's over 3000').
Even small features can give you nasty turbulence if the conditions are right.
Sending someone mountain flying on a solo cross country is not clever but a route that crosses 2100' ground is reasonable enough. How are you supposed to learn about turbulence if you don't get out and experience it?
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My two pennies worth is that with 47 TTime you won't have a lot of experience flying an R22 solo, an R22 behaves quite different when there is only one person on board compared to 2. Especially if you for instance only weigh 75kg.
Couple with that some turbulence and I can perfectly understand it all feels a lot different from what you were used to.
As for Carbheat if you are pulling max chat there should not be to much chance of carb icing, though the factory recommended to me to have the carb heat out full all the time especially on a Beta II in the UK at +8 degrees.
Our school used to put on a course which based us at Carnaefon (Anglesey) and had us flying around Snowdonia.
I suggest you get back in there sharpish and get a feel for it.
We did have some serious turbulence over the last weeks which had us bouncing round the sky nicely and it is something you need getting used to.
Couple with that some turbulence and I can perfectly understand it all feels a lot different from what you were used to.
As for Carbheat if you are pulling max chat there should not be to much chance of carb icing, though the factory recommended to me to have the carb heat out full all the time especially on a Beta II in the UK at +8 degrees.
Our school used to put on a course which based us at Carnaefon (Anglesey) and had us flying around Snowdonia.
I suggest you get back in there sharpish and get a feel for it.
We did have some serious turbulence over the last weeks which had us bouncing round the sky nicely and it is something you need getting used to.
I may be a total cynic, but this thread reminds me of a couple of other wind ups - low hours, robinson, crazy claim leading to many indignant replies. I wont waste too much time on it.
