Hughes OH6A
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hughes OH6A
Question for those who have experience with the Hughes OH6A or 500C.
I am looking at getting a Hughes and was wondering if in the OH6A or 500C models if the C18 works ok or is one best to look for a C20. Also was wondering if you can change the skids from short to high and if so, about how much would that cost. I will be using it for personal use only.
I am looking at getting a Hughes and was wondering if in the OH6A or 500C models if the C18 works ok or is one best to look for a C20. Also was wondering if you can change the skids from short to high and if so, about how much would that cost. I will be using it for personal use only.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NZ
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An educated guess would say the C20 definitely come up trumps. here is a thread of interest if you haven't already seen it, there is quite a bit of talk on the engines near the middle somewhere:
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/407...to-thread.html
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/407...to-thread.html
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: on the edge
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am looking at getting a Hughes and was wondering if in the OH6A or 500C models if the C18 works ok or is one best to look for a C20.
Also becoming very difficult to procure spares.
I would suggest going for the C20.
Cheers
BH
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well the guy that has the OH6A for sale was saying that the C18 works just as well as the C20 in the 4 blade model and that the C20 was used when they went to the 5 blade D,E models for the extra power and lift. He said if your not trying to use the OH6 or C model for line work there is no real benefit to having a C20. In fact you use less gallons per hr with the C18. This particular turbine is the military version a 250-C10D which he says has a continuous 317 hp.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: US
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mav
You asked
and most people I know would recommend the C20.
Its not because the OH6 can't fly on an 18, it can but you asked
and to which I would say it is best to look for a C20.
The C20 will give you just that little extra power (the OH6A was under-powered to begin with) and which is an important safety factor.
A lot of private flyers dont have heaps of flight time and running around in a limited power helo always has the potential to court danger.
You might tell yourself you'll use it as a two-person ship (great) but the day will come one day one time when you've landed in your friend's back yard and a couple of people plead with you to ride in the back and you tell yourself 'just this once'. By the time you're four up and staring at the tree tops (above you) with limited power reserves and a downdraft comes and takes what you've got left - it will be too late to be thinking about C20s!
I've said this to countless friends over the years and I'll say it again. If you don't have enough money to fly rite, don't fly at all!
That may sound a bit harsh but here's the deal, in aviation when money is an issue - safety often gets compromised and that just doesn't 'fly' in the aviation game!
Having said this - you can operate an OH6 with a C18 (if you're real careful about what you do and real disciplined also) but, a C20 is better.
High skids are an easy mod for the OH6/C model.
HM
You asked
was wondering if in the OH6A or 500C models if the C18 works ok or is one best to look for a C20
Its not because the OH6 can't fly on an 18, it can but you asked
or is one best to look for a C20
The C20 will give you just that little extra power (the OH6A was under-powered to begin with) and which is an important safety factor.
A lot of private flyers dont have heaps of flight time and running around in a limited power helo always has the potential to court danger.
You might tell yourself you'll use it as a two-person ship (great) but the day will come one day one time when you've landed in your friend's back yard and a couple of people plead with you to ride in the back and you tell yourself 'just this once'. By the time you're four up and staring at the tree tops (above you) with limited power reserves and a downdraft comes and takes what you've got left - it will be too late to be thinking about C20s!
I've said this to countless friends over the years and I'll say it again. If you don't have enough money to fly rite, don't fly at all!
That may sound a bit harsh but here's the deal, in aviation when money is an issue - safety often gets compromised and that just doesn't 'fly' in the aviation game!
Having said this - you can operate an OH6 with a C18 (if you're real careful about what you do and real disciplined also) but, a C20 is better.
High skids are an easy mod for the OH6/C model.
HM
Problems with C18 engine
1. 1250 hours on turbine overhaul
2. Above about 25 degrees C the engine will TOT out before torquing out
3. More expensive to overhaul, parts havent been made for years
Advantages
1. No cycle count
2. about 15 to 18 gals an hour
The C20 engine in a c model is the hot and high version of the 369HS (C18). Basically all 4 bladed models have a max transmission limit of 275 shp of which both engines give at 15 degrees. Hence stick a c20 in and she will take off at higher temps as she doesnt tot out
High skids will slow you down a bit and you will have to pay about $ 20k as you have to change the dampers as well as legs and skid tubes !
The C20B engine was used in the D and E models as the transmission went to 350 cont and 375 for take off ( C20b about 420shp)
Hope this helps
1. 1250 hours on turbine overhaul
2. Above about 25 degrees C the engine will TOT out before torquing out
3. More expensive to overhaul, parts havent been made for years
Advantages
1. No cycle count
2. about 15 to 18 gals an hour
The C20 engine in a c model is the hot and high version of the 369HS (C18). Basically all 4 bladed models have a max transmission limit of 275 shp of which both engines give at 15 degrees. Hence stick a c20 in and she will take off at higher temps as she doesnt tot out
High skids will slow you down a bit and you will have to pay about $ 20k as you have to change the dampers as well as legs and skid tubes !
The C20B engine was used in the D and E models as the transmission went to 350 cont and 375 for take off ( C20b about 420shp)
Hope this helps
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hell man,
Thanks thats is the info i was looking for. This is a really nice OH6, However i was concerned about the C18 power limitations. The field elevation here is 4200 and much of my flying will be in mountain areas. He says that he has taken 4 people in the OH6 and did not seem to have any problems. However his field elevation is about 2100 and what kind of take off area would be required for 4 people on board with the C18 as to not get into a tot problem.
Thanks thats is the info i was looking for. This is a really nice OH6, However i was concerned about the C18 power limitations. The field elevation here is 4200 and much of my flying will be in mountain areas. He says that he has taken 4 people in the OH6 and did not seem to have any problems. However his field elevation is about 2100 and what kind of take off area would be required for 4 people on board with the C18 as to not get into a tot problem.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ...in view of the 'Southern Cross' ...
Posts: 1,383
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mmmm ...
I've been away from the 500 for awhile but to add to all the above ....
Definitely the C20/C20B engine is the (now) more reliable way to go .. I've experienced many warped C18 compressor backplates on 500's and they will cost you !!!
Also ensure you have all the latest T/R bearings and mods done ... DO not use the old Fibreglass T/R blades (if they still exist?) ... go for the metal blades.
Have fun ... they're a great machine ..
I've been away from the 500 for awhile but to add to all the above ....
Definitely the C20/C20B engine is the (now) more reliable way to go .. I've experienced many warped C18 compressor backplates on 500's and they will cost you !!!
Also ensure you have all the latest T/R bearings and mods done ... DO not use the old Fibreglass T/R blades (if they still exist?) ... go for the metal blades.
Have fun ... they're a great machine ..
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hughes 500,
This component times sheet on this OH6 shows Turbine Component time
425.8 and 1324.2 remaining. So this info is wrong then. The C18 can't go 1750 to overhaul. So if the trans can only handle 275 max then when you are using the C20 for take off does it exceed the trans limits. Do they ever use a C20B in a OH6 or a 500C model.
Thanks for all the input
Big investment and i want to get it wright the first time.
This component times sheet on this OH6 shows Turbine Component time
425.8 and 1324.2 remaining. So this info is wrong then. The C18 can't go 1750 to overhaul. So if the trans can only handle 275 max then when you are using the C20 for take off does it exceed the trans limits. Do they ever use a C20B in a OH6 or a 500C model.
Thanks for all the input
Big investment and i want to get it wright the first time.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are C20Bs installed in some. You never have to worry about TOT then. I had to take an OH-6A(OVL) to 13,000 feet to reach a point where the engine produced less power than the transmission limit.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: the hills of halton
Age: 71
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1974 HUGHES 500C Turbine Helicopters For Sale At Controller.com
One here might be a wee bit of a ferry flight though.
One here might be a wee bit of a ferry flight though.
The 369C will make you watch the TOT like a hawk even with only 2 people & fuel & that's in the UK it ain't hot & high.
With the high skids you stand less chance of setting the lawn on fire, still makes brown patches though
With the high skids you stand less chance of setting the lawn on fire, still makes brown patches though
Last edited by 500e; 16th Jan 2011 at 18:38.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Age: 66
Posts: 919
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love my C18, very economical,reliable and powerfull. The best thing of all is you do not have the cycle count limitation associated with the C20. I heard of one guy had to have an overhaul at half life because he did a lot of short flights and ran out of starts. No problems finding spares either. Sure you have to watch the tot in the summer, but at least you won't overtorque the transmission. Go with the C18, I would recommend it. 
Mav27
The transmission is the limiting factor on a 369HS or OH6. On an ICAO std day of 15 degrees the engine will provide you a tad more power than the trx can handle. However as the temp goes up or you go higher you will run out of tot before torque hence the more powerful C20 ( yes you can put a C20B) in the C model. However the limiting factor is still the drivetrain. Thats why D model came along, bigger trx extra blade etc etc
The C20 series has the follwing times for turbine
N1 side 1750 hours or 3000 starts
N2 4500 hours or 6000 starts
C18 has 1250 hours N1 and no start limitation, sorry cant remember N2
The other way to go is to buy the machien and when engine needs overhauling slap in a C20 adds value to machine. Have to check have correct trx, tailboom and tr blades though
The transmission is the limiting factor on a 369HS or OH6. On an ICAO std day of 15 degrees the engine will provide you a tad more power than the trx can handle. However as the temp goes up or you go higher you will run out of tot before torque hence the more powerful C20 ( yes you can put a C20B) in the C model. However the limiting factor is still the drivetrain. Thats why D model came along, bigger trx extra blade etc etc
The C20 series has the follwing times for turbine
N1 side 1750 hours or 3000 starts
N2 4500 hours or 6000 starts
C18 has 1250 hours N1 and no start limitation, sorry cant remember N2
The other way to go is to buy the machien and when engine needs overhauling slap in a C20 adds value to machine. Have to check have correct trx, tailboom and tr blades though
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Transmissions in the 500 are fairly bulletproof. I would rather have to pay for an over-torque inspection than an over-temp inspection. Over-torques won't be a problem if you watch your guages, just as over-temps won't be. The big difference comes in in the way you fly. With an engine that delivers more power than the transmission limits, you can fly the same in the summer or winter. With an engine limited system, you have to change the way you fly with the seasons. Adjusted passenger loads, adjusted fuel loads, not being able to go up the mountain ect..... Since you are already starting off at 4200 feet, you are already limited somewhat with the C-18.
With the questions that you are asking, you should get in touch with someone who knows what they are talking about and sit down face to face. A non-partial party who won't profit fromwhat you purchase. Look at performance charts for the machines available, look at spares availability, look at operating costs, look at each machine's emtpy weight- and if you want to fly people in the rear- sit in the back of the 500 for a bit. I would not want to part with the amount of money you are talking about and still be asking the questions you are asking.
Mark
With the questions that you are asking, you should get in touch with someone who knows what they are talking about and sit down face to face. A non-partial party who won't profit fromwhat you purchase. Look at performance charts for the machines available, look at spares availability, look at operating costs, look at each machine's emtpy weight- and if you want to fly people in the rear- sit in the back of the 500 for a bit. I would not want to part with the amount of money you are talking about and still be asking the questions you are asking.
Mark
Last edited by mfriskel; 16th Jan 2011 at 21:41.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The South Coast
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The C20 Turbine will need two FAA air directives complied with before October, which will then make it into a C20B. Save the expense and get one with the C20B already installed.
If you do go for the C18, I can confirm that there is NO new part support of this model 250 by Rolls Royce. Yes, you can pick up low cost modules, but these will no doubt be ex military, old and probably have been stored up for a long time.
There is a big difference buying a C18 powered aircraft you don't know to having owned and cherished your own C18 powered aircraft.
If you do go for the C18, I can confirm that there is NO new part support of this model 250 by Rolls Royce. Yes, you can pick up low cost modules, but these will no doubt be ex military, old and probably have been stored up for a long time.
There is a big difference buying a C18 powered aircraft you don't know to having owned and cherished your own C18 powered aircraft.