Helicopter Long Line hits Power Cable and causes Fireball in Hong Kong
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What is the reason for the staff turnover? There must be something significant if both the management and crews are making a move.
I have seen 2 ads posted earlier in January. One for a new Chief Pilot and one for 'Experienced long line pilots...based in Asia....Lama experience preferred.' Not aware of too many Lama operators in Asia.
I have seen 2 ads posted earlier in January. One for a new Chief Pilot and one for 'Experienced long line pilots...based in Asia....Lama experience preferred.' Not aware of too many Lama operators in Asia.
Last edited by General Lama; 25th Jan 2011 at 01:34. Reason: Missing text
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Funny coincidence
Hi there VSOP,
It seems to me that we work for the same company! And yes, I agree with you; it would be better to have that friend of ours in the next fire fighting season than to have a spanish kamov pilot with some 3000 hours (pencil flight time, of course!).
At least we know him and he knows the country, the company and the guys.
It seems to me that we work for the same company! And yes, I agree with you; it would be better to have that friend of ours in the next fire fighting season than to have a spanish kamov pilot with some 3000 hours (pencil flight time, of course!).
At least we know him and he knows the country, the company and the guys.
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Yeah, better than hiring guys who cook their engines over the fire:
http://www.cad.gov.hk/reports/B-HRN%...2-2011_eng.pdf
http://www.cad.gov.hk/reports/B-HRN%...2-2011_eng.pdf
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The preliminary report is out:
http://www.cad.gov.hk/reports/B-HJV%...3-2011_Eng.pdf
No mention of hitting a power cable in the report.
http://www.cad.gov.hk/reports/B-HJV%...3-2011_Eng.pdf
No mention of hitting a power cable in the report.
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Funny coincidence
Hi there VSOP,
It seems to me that we work for the same company! And yes, I agree with you; it would be better to have that friend of ours in the next fire fighting season than to have a spanish kamov pilot with some 3000 hours (pencil flight time, of course!).
At least we know him and he knows the country, the company and the guys.
Well Mr Portuguese version of Bluethunder has delighted us with ones of those fantastic, first post by the way,hope not the last, replies full of education, knowledge of the matter, and in other words sad comment towards spanish pilots, regardless of what we fly.
Please some more respect and manners are needed to be part of a civilised forum.
Cheers
Hi there VSOP,
It seems to me that we work for the same company! And yes, I agree with you; it would be better to have that friend of ours in the next fire fighting season than to have a spanish kamov pilot with some 3000 hours (pencil flight time, of course!).
At least we know him and he knows the country, the company and the guys.
Well Mr Portuguese version of Bluethunder has delighted us with ones of those fantastic, first post by the way,hope not the last, replies full of education, knowledge of the matter, and in other words sad comment towards spanish pilots, regardless of what we fly.
Please some more respect and manners are needed to be part of a civilised forum.
Cheers
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deny,deny,deny
There is no mention of the long line contacting the transmission line in the preliminary report as the CAD have two investigate and sort out two very different versions of what happened.
The pilot's statement claims that the transmission lines arced across to the helicopter's long line creating the fireball and that the long line never came into contact with the transmission line.
The injured workers and other ground workers claim that the long line contacted the transmission line causing a large fireball which fell to the ground.
The local cantonese news footage taken shortly after the accident includes interviews with workers stating the long line contacted the transmission line. This footage also shows a lengthy section of the long lines protective cover hanging from the transmission line.
Guess will see what the CAD thinks after they complete their investigation of the long line to see if they feel it came into contact with the transmission line.
The pilot's statement claims that the transmission lines arced across to the helicopter's long line creating the fireball and that the long line never came into contact with the transmission line.
The injured workers and other ground workers claim that the long line contacted the transmission line causing a large fireball which fell to the ground.
The local cantonese news footage taken shortly after the accident includes interviews with workers stating the long line contacted the transmission line. This footage also shows a lengthy section of the long lines protective cover hanging from the transmission line.
Guess will see what the CAD thinks after they complete their investigation of the long line to see if they feel it came into contact with the transmission line.
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So...
Did they find out what happened? I am sure that there are several operators that work in close proximity to power lines that could benefit from the findings in this incident. I sure hope that it doesn't get 'swept under the rug'. In the name of safety, if there are any official results, please post them.
GL
GL
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Hmmmmm
General Lama,
No final report yet on the CAD site. Interesting though that the latest rumor has the company applying to the CAD to have the same pilot involved in the accident appointed to the position of Chief Pilot. Understand that the CAD responded to the company that inlight of this pilots recent accident, they would not be an acceptable candidate for CP. Seems after months of advertising around the world they still cannot find anyone interested in taking on this challenge.
No final report yet on the CAD site. Interesting though that the latest rumor has the company applying to the CAD to have the same pilot involved in the accident appointed to the position of Chief Pilot. Understand that the CAD responded to the company that inlight of this pilots recent accident, they would not be an acceptable candidate for CP. Seems after months of advertising around the world they still cannot find anyone interested in taking on this challenge.
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what the CAD thinks...
The CAD sure takes their time. It has almost been 3 months since the original post?! Nothing like efficiency. At this rate, the same incident could have happened several times. Some things never cease to amaze.
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Captain Chameleon
3 months certainly is a long time. We know the HK CAD have had the long line examined and certainly by now would have determined if it did, or did not contact the transmission line. Captain Chameleon claims the transmission lines flashed over and blames the electric long line. The ground workers claim the long line contacted the transmission line. Come on HK CAD what is the result of your 3 month investigation? If you have found that the electric long line is the cause of the fireball as Captain Chameleon claims then let the industry know so this knowledge can prevent it from happening again. If it was caused by pilot error with the long line coming in direct contact with the transmission line then let the industry know. Either way 3 months is too long for an answer.
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General Lama,
The time frame doesn't surprise me. Not only do you have to factor in any political wrangling, and classic local bureaucracy and cultural hurdles (I didn't say face saving) , the ICAO requirements aren't exactly slight, when it comes to investigating accidents.
Find the link to Annex 13. - Aircraft Accident And Investigation
http://www.airsafety.com.au/trinvbil/C619icao.pdf
Additionally, find below some extracts from that document. 4.1 lists all the States who must be informed. In this incident, presumably registry and operator are the same. Still that leaves ICAO and France to be sent a wad of papers (to be left on some penpushers desk until ready to be looked at), looked at, and then sent back - probably all by regular post, and probably because the penpusher doesn't know where Hong Kong is, it will go via China (the idiot probably put Hong Kong, CHINA on the envelope), or by surface mail!
6.2 says no one but HKCAD can release ANYTHING until the Final report. I can't see HKCAD releasing anything either.
And 6.6 says they should 'try' to get a final report out in 12 months.
So wind up your clock and sit back. I wouldn't expect anything before 12 months from HKCAD.
What is disconcerting is that 4/9 Preliminary Reports and 3/5 Final Reports on the CAD's web page concern helicopters. That's quite an alarming ratio given the volume of aviation there.
----------------------------------------------------------
2 250 kg.
or released by that latter State.
6.6
The time frame doesn't surprise me. Not only do you have to factor in any political wrangling, and classic local bureaucracy and cultural hurdles (I didn't say face saving) , the ICAO requirements aren't exactly slight, when it comes to investigating accidents.
Find the link to Annex 13. - Aircraft Accident And Investigation
http://www.airsafety.com.au/trinvbil/C619icao.pdf
Additionally, find below some extracts from that document. 4.1 lists all the States who must be informed. In this incident, presumably registry and operator are the same. Still that leaves ICAO and France to be sent a wad of papers (to be left on some penpushers desk until ready to be looked at), looked at, and then sent back - probably all by regular post, and probably because the penpusher doesn't know where Hong Kong is, it will go via China (the idiot probably put Hong Kong, CHINA on the envelope), or by surface mail!
6.2 says no one but HKCAD can release ANYTHING until the Final report. I can't see HKCAD releasing anything either.
And 6.6 says they should 'try' to get a final report out in 12 months.
So wind up your clock and sit back. I wouldn't expect anything before 12 months from HKCAD.
What is disconcerting is that 4/9 Preliminary Reports and 3/5 Final Reports on the CAD's web page concern helicopters. That's quite an alarming ratio given the volume of aviation there.
----------------------------------------------------------
4.1 The State of Occurrence shall forward a notification
of an accident or serious incident with a minimum of delay
and by the most suitable and quickest means available to:
a) the State of Registry;
b) the State of the Operator;
c) the State of Design;
d) the State of Manufacture; and
e) the International Civil Aviation Organization, when the
aircraft involved is of a maximum mass of over
of an accident or serious incident with a minimum of delay
and by the most suitable and quickest means available to:
a) the State of Registry;
b) the State of the Operator;
c) the State of Design;
d) the State of Manufacture; and
e) the International Civil Aviation Organization, when the
aircraft involved is of a maximum mass of over
2 250 kg.
6.2 States shall not circulate, publish or give access to a
draft report or any part thereof, or any documents obtained
during an investigation of an accident or incident, without the
express consent of the State which conducted the investigation,
unless such reports or documents have already been published
draft report or any part thereof, or any documents obtained
during an investigation of an accident or incident, without the
express consent of the State which conducted the investigation,
unless such reports or documents have already been published
or released by that latter State.
6.6
Recommendation.— The State conducting the
investigation should release the Final Report in the shortest
possible time and, if possible, within twelve months of the date
possible time and, if possible, within twelve months of the date
of the occurrence. If the report cannot be released within
twelve months, the State conducting the investigation should
release an interim report on each anniversary of the
occurrence, detailing the progress of the investigation and any
twelve months, the State conducting the investigation should
release an interim report on each anniversary of the
occurrence, detailing the progress of the investigation and any
safety issues raised.
Last edited by Chi Sin Gei Si; 3rd May 2011 at 03:38.
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The final report has been out since March:
http://www.cad.gov.hk/reports/B-HJV%...Eng_-Final.pdf
Surprise, surprise:
http://www.cad.gov.hk/reports/B-HJV%...Eng_-Final.pdf
Surprise, surprise:
Expert advice from the PolyU further indicated that if an external object had come sufficiently close to the Phase L2 conductor and an earthed object, a short circuit may occur, causing a flashover. Based on these findings, the investigation team estimated that at the time of the accident, the longline might have come close enough to the Phase L2 conductor to trigger a fault current to flow from the conductor to an earthed object, causing a flashover. Other possible causes including transient surges of electricity in the CLP’s electrical system and lightning strikes were also considered, however on further investigation, these possibilities had been ruled out.
Last edited by Runway101; 23rd Jun 2012 at 12:09.
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Not suprised!
20 centimeters or less required to cause a flash over....... So why was the pilot so close to the line? The company's operating procedures as well as HK regulations for working around energized power lines requires a distance much greater than 20 centimeters to provide for a safe operation.
Good old Captain Chameleon, proving once again, in her own words " I am the most experienced pilot here"
Good old Captain Chameleon, proving once again, in her own words " I am the most experienced pilot here"
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Looking at the last photo, whoever thought that having a drop zone that close to a live 132kV circuit really needs their head examined. Whilst I understand there are severe access difficulties, a minimum safe distance for that sort of work should be in the range of 10s of meters or the circuit should be dead & earthed.
Whilst the report talks of 20 cm distance, that would be in ideal conditions the distance would be a good bit higher in damp conditions. In UK electricity ops the minimum safe distance at the voltage is 1.4m (IIRC)
Though there is a lot of responsibility with the heli ops, the power line owners also should bear a major responsibility for setting the trap in the first place.
Whilst the report talks of 20 cm distance, that would be in ideal conditions the distance would be a good bit higher in damp conditions. In UK electricity ops the minimum safe distance at the voltage is 1.4m (IIRC)
Though there is a lot of responsibility with the heli ops, the power line owners also should bear a major responsibility for setting the trap in the first place.
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Clearly the minimum safe distance was not followed. I am sure most if not all of us have experienced some customers wishing to be that much closer to make it easier for them, or to carry heavier loads than the numbers dictate. Easier often means more risk. It is the professional pilots responsibility to not be pressured into the trap. Explain why to the customer, and complete the work in the safest possible manner for the ground personnel, aircrew, and aircraft.
Last edited by mollydooker; 23rd Sep 2012 at 23:55.
